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[Music]

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explode dissolve or e-ticket ride into

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the world of the paranoid

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strap yourself even as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO

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ghost lost world

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cryptozoology as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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NASA night now your electrifying hosts

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of exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley

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and team sports I'm fixing a hole in the

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roof where the rain comes in and sets my

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mind to wandering Lucy in the sky well

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Tim what did you do with all that acid

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we had your hold on you're holding out

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on me I want that that Jimi Hendrix acid

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because I'm tripping out I would hear I

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took it all to him every reason every

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single hit and you didn't leave any for

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Adam Wow okay look let me put it this

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way Adam and I Adam and I shared it we

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are I'm not going to fix the hole in the

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roof I tell you we've got a show in a

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half tonight we're going to be

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discussing a cult icons now you know

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when you think of icons of like the 20th

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century and all you think of Marilyn

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Monroe and James Dean and Marlon Brando

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princes died Elvis Presley but that

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ain't where we're coming from and we're

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well beyond swiveling hips and big

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bosoms and we like a little those too

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but uh you know tonight we're going to

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be talking about a cult icons which

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would include philip k dick William

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Burroughs

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Kandee Jones Kenneth Anger uh and

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Timothy Leary we're going to in fact

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we're going to ask our guest tonight who

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they think the icons are from the great

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world of the occult and so Tim how is

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your week been going well it's been it's

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been going pretty well right now we're

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under the influence of whatever that

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tropical storm was that came up through

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the Gulf of Mexico it's now made it all

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the way up to the Midwest and is dumping

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rain on us in copious amounts so well

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I'm under the influence too but why

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don't you why don't you well first of

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all one of the guests we had planned for

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this evening is not going to be with us

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but no big loss I won't even mention his

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name because he doesn't deserve it

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we've had a few people who have canceled

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on us but because of illness and and and

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the people in their family having to be

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rushed to the hospital and all I do

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believe this may be the first guest that

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actually pulled out just a couple of

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hours before the show and he kind of as

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far as I'm concerned misrepresented

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himself but that's okay because we've

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got two whirlwind guests with us tonight

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one of our favorites and somebody new

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and I'm just so anxious to get started

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so Tim wanted to do the introductions

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well I took another drop of this in

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school a better I start saying you

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better quarter it Tim before you do

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anything else this I don't want to take

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the full full amount too soon well I'm

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extremely happy because we have with us

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tonight Val de Rossi oh I hope I

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pronounced that correctly Valerie and Oh

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fantastic Valerie Guillen is an author

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editor coach and futurist who has worked

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for MTV DC Marvel Comics valiant boom

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studios and Mac

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Becker in publishing she started her

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career as an editor on comic books such

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as Jala Aquaman DC the new frontier and

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Batman black and white

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she was the entering editor-in-chief and

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producer and writer for MTV's

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pop-culture website MTV geek she she has

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a conflict library of whistleblower

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Edward Snowden which receives

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international online and TV press from

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outlets as diverse as time to Guardian

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MSNBC al Jazeera USA Today and I have to

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tell you Valerie I'm a big fan of your

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Edward Snowden biography I love that

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when I've got a copy of it right here so

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oh absolutely I was absolutely thrilled

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but I thought that first of all that you

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contributor to chapter for our book

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about Bill okay dick and then yes being

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able to be on our show

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currently Val writes for butterfly

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language online blog which is a

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fantastic blog I really have become a

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big fan of it and nice well and as well

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we also have our one of our favorite

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people we have Adam Cole right Lee and

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Adam is a self-described crackpot

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historian his articles have appeared for

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two decades and nearly every zine

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underground magazine countercultural

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publication and conspiratorial website

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including the several of books that we

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put out through global communications

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and Adam also has a featured chapter in

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our book the matrix control system of

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philip k dick so Valerie Adam thank you

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for being with us tonight on exploring

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the Bazaar thanks Romeo well you know

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you know Tim we already have on someone

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who represents can Kenneth Anger

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the underground filmmaker who I

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certainly consider a

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an icon and in fact there is a section

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in the in the book that you just

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described the matrix control system of

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philip k dick about Kenneth Anger

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and I had a a synchronicity more than

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just a coincidence more than just a

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chance meeting back in 1992 I organized

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an event I believe it was in June of the

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year in Palm Springs California the

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event was a celebration of the fiftieth

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year a half-century of the UFO contactee

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movement and we invited the people like

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Gabriel Greene who ran for president in

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1964 it was a burr you know in 64 and

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then gayben 64 century apart but what

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the heck is the difference right and who

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else did we had we had the nephew of

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George Van Tassel who of course had many

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contacts there near giant rock in the

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mojave desert just outside of Joshua

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Tree and a whole bevy of other

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contactees and alumina alumina Rees from

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the world of flying saucer dumb with a

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concentration on the earlier years not

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that I've ever been a big believer

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necessarily in the contactees but it was

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a very interesting movement and it

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certainly harmed no one I mean what is a

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prophet by any of the selling a few of

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books if in order to do that they'd have

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to set out at George Van Tassel's giant

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rock airport in the hundred and five

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degree heat so that's certainly

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certainly no big scam and in my eyes and

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of course George Van Tassel built his

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integratron out there in Landers

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California it still stands to this day

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anyway it was a weekend long conference

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and we started setting up on a Thursday

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early evening late afternoon

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and a few of the speakers were coming in

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you know that had taken the rooms in the

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hotel and and people were starting to

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wander around and of course people were

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downstairs where we were setting up the

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vendors tables in the ticket area

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watching me unpack the books not helping

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necessarily but what should we impact

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the books along with our Mightiest they

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have like blue ocean Carol Rodriguez and

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people that had worked with me for years

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oh maybe about a half an hour after we

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started setting up the the vendors

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tables people you know from the public

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started the wandering through and

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started looking at some of the crystals

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on the tables and paging through the our

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books which I hoped that they would buy

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later on in the weekend and a gentleman

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passed by our table stopped to look at a

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couple of the books and then continued

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on his way well now I noticed after a

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minute or so that he had left behind a

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stack of mail and obviously he had just

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come from the post office because there

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was a rubber band around it and it was

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maybe 10 or 15 and letters there and I

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figure oh my goodness a guy left his his

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his mail here so I I could see him that

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he was still wandering down the down the

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hallway but kind of added towards the

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exit so I followed him down now on the

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way up to catch up with him I happened

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to look down at the top envelope and I

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saw that the envelopes were addressed to

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Kenneth Anger

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know was I I guess he's an occult icon

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he did a number of what I would consider

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to be underground very artsy occult

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movies Scorpio Rising Lucifer rising

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they are on the Internet he was a

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student of Aleister Crowley and some

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accused him of being a Satanist which I

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don't think is necessarily true but you

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know how people make up the things that

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they don't understand or if they have a

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prejudice against you they'll say almost

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anything that they

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and without you know checking the the

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facts of the details anyway so I ran up

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to him and I said excuse me sir you know

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you left your mail behind here and then

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I asked him very politely I said are you

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do you happen to be Kenneth Anger the

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moviemaker the film the underground

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filmmaker and he said oh yes I am and I

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said well are you coming to our

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conference over the weekend and he said

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oh I would like to but I I don't really

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have the money to attend and I said well

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you know Kenneth I'm a fan of yours

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I invite you I will comp you for the the

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weekend give you a guest pass and so our

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keynote speaker was Robert Weiss who did

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the Day the Earth Stood Still the cat

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and any other number of movies and I set

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the two of them together at the main at

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the head table and I got to introduce

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both Kenneth Anger the king of

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underground films and Robert Weiss the

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producer director from the Hollywood

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decide on the cinema business so I

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consider that certainly a synchronicity

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that he would be passing by and I did

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ask Kenneth I did ask him if he knew he

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had an interest in UFOs obviously you

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see Lucifer rising it at the end of the

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film there's a giant UFO that passes

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over oh I think the Sphinx of the

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Pyramid in Egypt in a the imagery of the

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UFO isn't a lot of whatever it is that

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he's you know is create his creative

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juices and and so that I found that to

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be a very interesting a synchronously

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and of course I've had other

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synchronicities along that along that

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line but I was very pleased to have this

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one and I did ask him about any UFO

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sightings and he said yes he had had one

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oh just a month or so before our by

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chance and I used that in quotes a

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meeting there in Palm Springs he was an

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early riser and he was pedaling his

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bicycle

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along he was living in the house at the

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time that had once been owned by al

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jolson al Johnson and he was out

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pedaling his bike I don't know before

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dawn I guess or just around dawn and

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there was a UFO that was keeping pace

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with him so that indeed is our

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synchronicity with Kenneth Anger and

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we'll be discussing him you know it is

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the evening of proceeds along with some

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of these other giant icons of the occult

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and I want to start out I think it Tim

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we should introduce we should bring

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Valerie into the onto the microphone

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here and sort our conversation was her

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you know I was when I was preparing the

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book on the philip k dick I was you know

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looking at through the internet to see

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what other people had written on the

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subject and I came across Valerie's a

276
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butterfly language blog and she had

277
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written some things in there about

278
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Robert Anton Wilson and oh the David

279
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Bowie and philip k dick and I said well

280
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this is really fascinating stuff she

281
00:15:11,739 --> 00:15:09,709
really seems to know her business so I

282
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got in touch with her and I asked their

283
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permission if we could use some of the

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material in the book and there's a

285
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chapter that she submitted called divine

286
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invasions philip k dick Robert Anton

287
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Wilson and alien contact in the 1970s so

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what I would have welcomed a Valerie to

289
00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:32,689
our microphones here on exploring the

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bizarre so very nice to speak to you

291
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finally uh about beer yeah how did you

292
00:15:45,429 --> 00:15:43,369
get involved in all of this I I see

293
00:15:50,410 --> 00:15:45,439
you've worked up did you start your

294
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career working in comics yes I did I got

295
00:15:57,759 --> 00:15:52,639
my first job in comics right out of

296
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college and Adam claimed comics and then

297
00:16:05,499 --> 00:16:02,149
from there I went on to DC Comics to

298
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edit JLA and Batman titles and then

299
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:08,460
later on I wrote some comics for Marvel

300
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comics and other publishers and and this

301
00:16:17,690 --> 00:16:14,610
was where right out of college you

302
00:16:19,580 --> 00:16:17,700
started doing this uh yeah yeah right

303
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:19,590
out of college though I've been a

304
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:23,910
lifelong sort of reader and researcher

305
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:28,170
of the esoteric and UFOs and conspiracy

306
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,610
theories and all that what students I

307
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:31,920
was able to read I start off about that

308
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:34,800
wonderful and and how about as far is

309
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:37,890
like these a cult icons that you

310
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:40,620
mentioned in in a couple of your your

311
00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:43,440
blogs until I now who are your favorite

312
00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:46,350
icons would you say in exactly why well

313
00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:48,440
let's start out for example with

314
00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:50,640
well-filled Kay dick since that's the

315
00:16:57,230 --> 00:16:53,940
subject in the book sure um

316
00:16:58,820 --> 00:16:57,240
I first encountered silicate Nick's work

317
00:17:02,720 --> 00:16:58,830
outside of knowing that he was connected

318
00:17:06,410 --> 00:17:02,730
to a wave runner when I watched the 2001

319
00:17:10,610 --> 00:17:06,420
movie waking life by a Richard Linklater

320
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:10,620
and it had a portion about the flow my

321
00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:14,040
tears the policeman said incident the

322
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:18,120
philip k dick reported where he had sort

323
00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:21,410
of predicted events that later happened

324
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:25,470
through one of his novels and that

325
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,930
passage really sort of fascinated me and

326
00:17:31,940 --> 00:17:29,520
i want and i wondered you know was it

327
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,950
really true and so I started doing

328
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:34,080
research based off of just watching that

329
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:36,120
one segment from that movie and then it

330
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:39,360
was just a whole rabbit hole of this

331
00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:41,490
fascinating stuff I think we should

332
00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:44,340
mention that unlike other science

333
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:48,060
fiction writers who show very little

334
00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:49,620
interest and certainly are very

335
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:51,750
skeptical when it comes to things like

336
00:17:59,020 --> 00:17:56,910
UFOs and the the paranormal in fact they

337
00:18:02,030 --> 00:17:59,030
are blatantly hostile in a lot of cases

338
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:02,040
to the to the subject like arthur c

339
00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:07,410
clarke and Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov

340
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:11,880
I mean and these are the type of writers

341
00:18:16,570 --> 00:18:13,710
and icons in the science-fiction world

342
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:16,580
who seem to have their followers on a

343
00:18:22,379 --> 00:18:19,330
very tight leash

344
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:22,389
and but don't a dick wasn't was it like

345
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:26,529
that uh in fact he talked about multiple

346
00:18:35,369 --> 00:18:30,970
universes he said that he believed now

347
00:18:37,739 --> 00:18:35,379
this is going back to 1977 I think it

348
00:18:40,919 --> 00:18:37,749
was he was delivering and I addressed in

349
00:18:44,879 --> 00:18:40,929
France and it was at a press conference

350
00:18:48,450 --> 00:18:44,889
and he told the the the people gathered

351
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:48,460
their fans and press that he believed

352
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:50,710
that we were living in a multi universe

353
00:18:55,889 --> 00:18:54,210
and that we were part of a computer

354
00:18:59,460 --> 00:18:55,899
simulation

355
00:19:01,499 --> 00:18:59,470
now that today probably doesn't seem

356
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:01,509
that far-fetched we even have physicists

357
00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:04,809
that are discussing the the topic now in

358
00:19:13,889 --> 00:19:11,289
somewhat serious tones but back in 1977

359
00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:13,899
that certainly was a far-fetched idea

360
00:19:18,989 --> 00:19:17,080
and you could tell from the expression

361
00:19:23,009 --> 00:19:18,999
on the faces of those in the audience

362
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:23,019
that they were gathered early oh yes I

363
00:19:27,539 --> 00:19:25,210
see that obviously on YouTube in fact

364
00:19:29,609 --> 00:19:27,549
it's yeah we've had tested it one of his

365
00:19:32,430 --> 00:19:29,619
wives on the program we showed that on

366
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:32,440
our YouTube we have that little three or

367
00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:33,730
four minute section there they looked at

368
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:36,340
him like he was various crazy or

369
00:19:41,129 --> 00:19:38,080
something like that why didn't you tell

370
00:19:43,229 --> 00:19:41,139
us so a little bit about now Valles was

371
00:19:45,619 --> 00:19:43,239
of course is important but how did it

372
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:45,629
lead up to all of this I know he had a

373
00:19:55,049 --> 00:19:50,289
so-called encounter yeah the the first

374
00:20:00,570 --> 00:19:55,059
one yes he calls it the the 2-3 - 74

375
00:20:03,659 --> 00:20:00,580
encounters and in February of 1974 he

376
00:20:07,229 --> 00:20:03,669
was opening the door to pick up like a

377
00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:07,239
delivery woman with some medicine for

378
00:20:12,029 --> 00:20:09,220
his like a toothache and the woman was

379
00:20:15,389 --> 00:20:12,039
out the door she had a golden fish

380
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:15,399
pendant and the light he described with

381
00:20:19,529 --> 00:20:17,230
the light sort of bounced off that

382
00:20:22,619 --> 00:20:19,539
pendant in a certain way and he just

383
00:20:25,529 --> 00:20:22,629
suddenly had a sort of like a vision

384
00:20:29,460 --> 00:20:25,539
that you know everybody was I think like

385
00:20:32,249 --> 00:20:29,470
living in 200 AD it just sort of got a

386
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:32,259
download of information just from at one

387
00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:33,280
moment

388
00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:37,000
or two times actually yeah yeah like if

389
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:38,830
that's what really kicked it off and

390
00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:41,530
then there was like a bunch of a series

391
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:45,790
of by talking in tongues being you know

392
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:49,360
basically contacted slash possessed by

393
00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:51,370
this entity that he variously called

394
00:20:58,290 --> 00:20:55,630
zebra and valise and it's basically kind

395
00:21:02,430 --> 00:20:58,300
of having a relationship with this

396
00:21:04,650 --> 00:21:02,440
entity which he knew it a mostly

397
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:04,660
positive one from what I can gather but

398
00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:07,840
ah well wasn't there an incident where I

399
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:10,180
guess telepathically or maybe he was

400
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:13,150
child channeling this entity that they

401
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:16,090
told him that his son was seriously ill

402
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:17,800
even though the doctors had said that

403
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:20,650
there was nothing wrong with him yep

404
00:21:24,990 --> 00:21:22,750
that's absolutely that absolutely

405
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:25,000
happened he got the sudden intuition

406
00:21:30,540 --> 00:21:27,250
that it son had it's very specific

407
00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:30,550
I think hernia type condition that if it

408
00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:31,990
wasn't treated right away he would die

409
00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:33,640
and he just sort of kind of had an

410
00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:35,680
intuition said it we've got it taken to

411
00:21:40,050 --> 00:21:37,630
the hospital and they took him to the

412
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:40,060
hospital and lo and behold his son to

413
00:21:48,330 --> 00:21:43,600
have that exact medical condition and

414
00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:48,340
any no I was just going to say now what

415
00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:51,070
okay he also I remember a reading and I

416
00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:53,500
think it's in the book that he of course

417
00:21:59,580 --> 00:21:55,000
you talk about Donald Trump talks about

418
00:22:01,890 --> 00:21:59,590
the microwave being used as a device to

419
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:01,900
spy on people but he had he had all

420
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:04,050
kinds of kind of like paranoid

421
00:22:08,550 --> 00:22:06,550
experiences in his life and I think one

422
00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:08,560
of them actually did involve the

423
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:11,950
microwave and all have the TV he thought

424
00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:13,810
that the children were being programmed

425
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:16,300
through the television set which is not

426
00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:19,510
too far-fetched certainly what what

427
00:22:28,250 --> 00:22:23,560
other paranoia is a do you think that he

428
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,260
had or did he write about ah he believed

429
00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:30,400
he believed that like I think the

430
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:33,460
Russians were sort of beaming stuff like

431
00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:35,770
you know to the United States or into

432
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,520
his brain he had a safe broken into he

433
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:41,200
came home a neat clean but the safest

434
00:22:46,860 --> 00:22:43,450
broken into it's important papers were

435
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:46,870
stolen and data he had a weird

436
00:22:50,790 --> 00:22:48,640
letter that was mailed to him that had

437
00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:50,800
some sort of like prophetic information

438
00:22:55,230 --> 00:22:52,030
or something that he didn't even want to

439
00:22:57,450 --> 00:22:55,240
talk about but I freaked him out a lot

440
00:22:59,820 --> 00:22:57,460
and he was but he was also very yeah

441
00:23:02,630 --> 00:22:59,830
yeah well I do know that he contacted

442
00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:02,640
the FBI because he claims he did

443
00:23:07,950 --> 00:23:05,950
neo-nazi group was I don't know if they

444
00:23:10,620 --> 00:23:07,960
were threatening him but they wanted him

445
00:23:12,510 --> 00:23:10,630
to write some material in his literature

446
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:12,520
that other people reading the books were

447
00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:15,250
like a secret code or something along

448
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:18,430
that line anyway I hear I hear the voice

449
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:21,520
in the background like Thor the God of

450
00:23:26,370 --> 00:23:24,370
Thunder lightning and harassment and so

451
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:26,380
we'll be back after a very short break

452
00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:29,760
yes the wiki thing and a cult icon

453
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:44,790
now back to exploring the bazaar with

454
00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:46,690
two of the most in-depth refining

455
00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:49,480
researchers with harriel your hosts

456
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:54,790
Timothy Becca Lee Anton Swartz and

457
00:23:59,580 --> 00:23:56,710
welcome back to exploring the bazaar I'm

458
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,590
Tim Swartz and we're going to bring Adam

459
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:01,600
Golightly into the conversation but I

460
00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:04,240
want to remind our listeners that if you

461
00:24:09,419 --> 00:24:06,190
have any questions for either of our

462
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:09,429
guests please let us know come into our

463
00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:12,850
chat room text is call us carrier pigeon

464
00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:15,580
ESP I don't care we want to hear from

465
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:18,670
you so don't be shy let us know what

466
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:19,600
you're thinking about

467
00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:22,630
so Adam thank you for being with us

468
00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:24,160
tonight it's great to have you back with

469
00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:28,600
us again yeah thanks and I just just

470
00:24:35,790 --> 00:24:32,830
briefly I'd like to bring up the section

471
00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:35,800
in our book about philip k dick where

472
00:24:43,710 --> 00:24:39,820
your featured talking about dr. John

473
00:24:45,330 --> 00:24:43,720
lily and I just you know I just want to

474
00:24:48,060 --> 00:24:45,340
ask you just you know real quick before

475
00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:48,070
we continue our conversation just you

476
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:51,100
know what got you fascinated in the

477
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:54,370
first place about dr. lily well I was

478
00:25:00,169 --> 00:24:56,530
interested in psychedelics and all these

479
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:00,179
psychedelic pioneers back in the day and

480
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:05,950
it one area of interest had to do with a

481
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:08,170
lot of the guys were talking about

482
00:25:16,740 --> 00:25:11,650
tonight Robert Anton Wilson and Larry

483
00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:16,750
and lily and McKenna you know we're all

484
00:25:25,530 --> 00:25:20,860
considered psychedelic pioneers and they

485
00:25:27,930 --> 00:25:25,540
all had UFO experiences quote-unquote

486
00:25:30,990 --> 00:25:27,940
around the same period you know which I

487
00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:31,000
found pretty fascinating at the time you

488
00:25:37,290 --> 00:25:33,790
know I will get into all the specifics

489
00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:37,300
but Robert Anton Wilson had a really

490
00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:41,140
profound experience where he believed or

491
00:25:46,740 --> 00:25:43,780
suspected at one time or another that he

492
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:46,750
came in contact with entities from the

493
00:25:51,630 --> 00:25:49,120
Sirius Star System and that was going on

494
00:25:53,170 --> 00:25:51,640
the same time Phil dick had his

495
00:25:55,390 --> 00:25:53,180
experiences

496
00:25:59,290 --> 00:25:55,400
Phil dick was also part of you know the

497
00:26:01,600 --> 00:25:59,300
counterculture and he did dabble in LSD

498
00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:01,610
is will a little bit not as much as

499
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:03,830
these other guys Lily had his experience

500
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:06,770
around the same time where he was

501
00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:10,130
experimenting with flotation tanks and

502
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:13,190
ketamine he contacted a group of

503
00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:16,210
entities with the acronym ecco ecco

504
00:26:23,380 --> 00:26:19,940
earth coincidence communication office

505
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:23,390
or something like that and terence

506
00:26:29,710 --> 00:26:26,480
mckenna's well he and Dennis McKenna

507
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:29,720
were in the Amazon around that same

508
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:34,400
period there took some mushrooms and

509
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:36,530
they witnessed an old-school Adamski

510
00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:39,890
type flying saucer so I found this whole

511
00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:42,470
territory pretty interesting when I was

512
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:46,270
looking into a lot of these guys and

513
00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:50,000
fears back there was a statistical

514
00:26:54,970 --> 00:26:52,550
analysis done at a web site I don't

515
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:54,980
think the websites indeed is there

516
00:27:01,570 --> 00:26:57,890
anymore called temporal doorway comm and

517
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:01,580
it had like peak years of UFO sightings

518
00:27:12,850 --> 00:27:05,000
and one of those peak years was either

519
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:12,860
at 73 or 74 and I had my own psychedelic

520
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:15,290
UFO experience and 78 and that was

521
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:17,990
another one of those peak years so I

522
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:21,770
think all these things kind of play into

523
00:27:28,020 --> 00:27:24,530
each other but you know that some of my

524
00:27:31,060 --> 00:27:28,030
interests in Lille and all those uh

525
00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:31,070
psychedelic pioneers and how they all

526
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:35,950
seemed during that period to have these

527
00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:40,690
UFO encounters but I quote unquote firm

528
00:27:46,420 --> 00:27:43,880
well and I don't gosh I wonder how many

529
00:27:49,870 --> 00:27:46,430
people even remember that there was a

530
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:49,880
movie roughly based on John Lily's

531
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:51,890
experiments especially with a floatation

532
00:27:57,220 --> 00:27:54,890
tank called the altered states yeah they

533
00:27:59,670 --> 00:27:57,230
didn't talk too much I don't think they

534
00:28:04,960 --> 00:27:59,680
talked at all about ketamine in that

535
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:04,970
film but Lily and his partner I forget

536
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:06,610
the guys name now

537
00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:08,830
and one of the early experiments is

538
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:11,980
partner took some ketamine and went into

539
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:15,340
the flotation tank and actually had this

540
00:28:20,250 --> 00:28:18,159
vision that he was transformed into an

541
00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:20,260
ape or something of that nature and

542
00:28:29,159 --> 00:28:25,870
that's what part of that movie was based

543
00:28:31,649 --> 00:28:29,169
on that experience so anyway yeah yeah

544
00:28:34,019 --> 00:28:31,659
I'm a movie they they they went to you

545
00:28:36,990 --> 00:28:34,029
know like South America and like imbibed

546
00:28:40,409 --> 00:28:37,000
in some kind of like ayahuasca it all

547
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:40,419
type of some kind of like noxus looking

548
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:42,970
little liquid that they drank and that's

549
00:28:46,529 --> 00:28:44,289
right it's been a while since I've seen

550
00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:46,539
that yeah I you know it's funny I just

551
00:28:50,129 --> 00:28:48,820
had to see it it was a you know I call

552
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:50,139
him one of these streaming channels not

553
00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:51,730
too long ago now I'm like you had been

554
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:54,309
years since I had seen it but it just

555
00:28:59,310 --> 00:28:57,130
you know brought back you know a lot of

556
00:29:03,509 --> 00:28:59,320
these you know like you know early ideas

557
00:29:05,879 --> 00:29:03,519
of these scientists experimenting with

558
00:29:10,019 --> 00:29:05,889
these psychedelics you know in an

559
00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:10,029
attempt to see if they could you know

560
00:29:15,930 --> 00:29:12,840
contact either other realities or

561
00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:15,940
possibly other intelligences you know in

562
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,190
these other realities you know and

563
00:29:24,539 --> 00:29:20,320
that's that's something that you know

564
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:24,549
philip k dick was writing about for

565
00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:29,529
years before it was really you know kind

566
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:31,960
of acceptable it's not quite the right

567
00:29:35,370 --> 00:29:33,850
word but he don't want everybody else

568
00:29:37,409 --> 00:29:35,380
was writing about nuts-and-bolts

569
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:37,419
spaceships you know colonies on the moon

570
00:29:43,649 --> 00:29:41,110
mars philip k dick was seriously looking

571
00:29:48,779 --> 00:29:43,659
into the idea of the unreality of

572
00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:48,789
reality yeah many ways he was looking

573
00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:51,700
into like human experience I think but

574
00:29:57,180 --> 00:29:53,470
he used got into a lot of these

575
00:29:59,580 --> 00:29:57,190
alternate realities and what what's it

576
00:30:01,519 --> 00:29:59,590
mean to be human I was thinking today

577
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:01,529
before we did this interview one of my

578
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:05,710
favorite books is Do Androids Dream of

579
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:07,710
Electric Sheep which of course

580
00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:11,200
playground er was based on and I think

581
00:30:17,159 --> 00:30:13,870
it was in that book there was a passage

582
00:30:20,159 --> 00:30:17,169
that blew my mind at the time and I

583
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:20,169
really got into his stuff like

584
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:24,730
late 70s but he was talking about you

585
00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:28,450
know the replicants the androids and how

586
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:31,960
they had implanted memories you know

587
00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:34,480
they'd make a replica of Adam go rightly

588
00:30:39,749 --> 00:30:37,720
for instance and they take all the

589
00:30:42,570 --> 00:30:39,759
memories of Adam go right Lee's life's

590
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:42,580
things that touch him you know when it

591
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:45,369
might be like a something that touched

592
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:48,609
him emotionally like a puppy with a

593
00:30:53,249 --> 00:30:51,580
ribbon tied around his neck and

594
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,259
something and would make him cry you

595
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:56,320
know and those are the types of memories

596
00:31:00,899 --> 00:30:58,570
they implanted in the replicants and

597
00:31:03,989 --> 00:31:00,909
then seeing through the replicants eyes

598
00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:03,999
when they finally came to the

599
00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:06,820
realization that these false memories

600
00:31:14,729 --> 00:31:10,230
were implanted you know it was just

601
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:14,739
incredible writing well and that's

602
00:31:22,619 --> 00:31:20,289
that's the thing about dicks you know

603
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:22,629
ideas and writing you know especially

604
00:31:31,340 --> 00:31:24,369
like I said Androids Dream of Electric

605
00:31:35,249 --> 00:31:31,350
Sheep this it was these memories that

606
00:31:37,739 --> 00:31:35,259
that made these replicants human

607
00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:37,749
basically I mean they weren't just

608
00:31:44,249 --> 00:31:41,399
Androids anymore with these memories I

609
00:31:46,830 --> 00:31:44,259
mean they were not able to distinguish

610
00:31:49,109 --> 00:31:46,840
that these weren't their memories these

611
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:49,119
memories were just as real to them as

612
00:31:54,330 --> 00:31:51,970
our memories are to us and that yeah

613
00:31:58,229 --> 00:31:54,340
yeah go ahead Glenn and even though they

614
00:32:00,509 --> 00:31:58,239
really had no capacity for really human

615
00:32:02,419 --> 00:32:00,519
emotions they've been programmed to

616
00:32:06,210 --> 00:32:02,429
believe they did have that capacity

617
00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:06,220
which if you're a replicant and you come

618
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:08,230
to this realization somebody reveals

619
00:32:14,180 --> 00:32:11,710
this to you it's like ah boy I would

620
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:14,190
make my head spin with I was a replicant

621
00:32:23,549 --> 00:32:20,529
yeah but what is what is emotion so what

622
00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:23,559
is being human well what am i real yeah

623
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:25,720
yeah yeah exactly exactly and that's

624
00:32:31,529 --> 00:32:27,850
that's one of the things that that dick

625
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:31,539
you know often touched upon in his

626
00:32:37,289 --> 00:32:33,070
movies and

627
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:37,299
luli I'm sorry his books and as you know

628
00:32:43,529 --> 00:32:39,450
typically was talking about earlier when

629
00:32:46,889 --> 00:32:43,539
Phil was giving that that talking from

630
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:46,899
the via the the press and so audience

631
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:50,080
members you know he was basically

632
00:32:53,999 --> 00:32:52,240
talking about the same kind of thing

633
00:32:57,450 --> 00:32:54,009
that was brought up then later in the

634
00:32:59,159 --> 00:32:57,460
movie The Matrix right yeah so I man it

635
00:33:02,070 --> 00:32:59,169
makes me wonder you know I mean I you

636
00:33:04,110 --> 00:33:02,080
know I don't know has anybody ever said

637
00:33:06,749 --> 00:33:04,120
that that yeah I mean you know the the

638
00:33:07,289 --> 00:33:06,759
the original screenwriters for the

639
00:33:10,019 --> 00:33:07,299
matrix

640
00:33:12,629 --> 00:33:10,029
you know borrowed these ideas you know

641
00:33:15,149 --> 00:33:12,639
from Phil ok dick you know well I wonder

642
00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:15,159
what when we were we're well yeah when

643
00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:17,860
when was the the actual term the matrix

644
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:20,470
first used I mean the philip k dick used

645
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:25,360
it in his talk there in France in 1977 I

646
00:33:31,499 --> 00:33:27,610
mean what what was his what was the

647
00:33:36,509 --> 00:33:31,509
background on that term does anybody

648
00:33:39,659 --> 00:33:36,519
else well maybe that salary I didn't I

649
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:39,669
didn't David I sort of popularize it

650
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:42,129
like me in the 90s I don't know if he

651
00:33:46,590 --> 00:33:44,110
borrowed it from philip k dick directly

652
00:33:49,019 --> 00:33:46,600
but I know he did in the 90s I can have

653
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:49,029
a book called the matrix something

654
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,610
matrix I don't kind of kind of slop

655
00:33:58,409 --> 00:33:54,000
together of everybody else's right

656
00:34:03,450 --> 00:33:58,419
not-not-not you're a painter I'm afraid

657
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:03,460
I think the the central control there it

658
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:04,960
tried to pick his mind and realize that

659
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,850
there wasn't anything to pick so what

660
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:09,520
the hell is most of the just British

661
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:12,970
sportscars I hey so Adam you mentioned

662
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:15,250
that you you had a filk a dick a

663
00:34:20,819 --> 00:34:18,310
synchronicity well a Kenneth Anger

664
00:34:22,919 --> 00:34:20,829
alright as I probably I probably had

665
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:22,929
some philip k dick synchronicities too

666
00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:27,310
but became a race from your mind yeah or

667
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:30,300
they were they were implanted in my mind

668
00:34:34,169 --> 00:34:32,169
the Kenneth Anger

669
00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:34,179
one you know I've written wrote the book

670
00:34:40,829 --> 00:34:37,270
on the Manson Family and Kenneth Anger

671
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:40,839
kind of played a central role in part of

672
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:43,359
that story with Bobby Beausoleil who was

673
00:34:51,369 --> 00:34:46,879
the first official Manson Family

674
00:34:55,089 --> 00:34:51,379
murderer and prior to hooking up with

675
00:34:59,950 --> 00:34:55,099
the Manson Family bosal a talented

676
00:35:02,200 --> 00:34:59,960
guitarist musician he was living in the

677
00:35:07,210 --> 00:35:02,210
Haight Ashbury you know during the day

678
00:35:11,849 --> 00:35:07,220
in Kenneth Anger saw mundane he

679
00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:11,859
immediately became angers prodigy and

680
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:14,990
anger said he told him me he was going

681
00:35:22,210 --> 00:35:17,930
to he would be the star in the Lucifer

682
00:35:25,839 --> 00:35:22,220
rising film and so they started filming

683
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,849
it and you know this was in 67 or so and

684
00:35:31,329 --> 00:35:27,920
there was a falling-out between anger

685
00:35:33,999 --> 00:35:31,339
and Beausoleil and they split ways and

686
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:34,009
anger claimed later that bozo lace told

687
00:35:41,710 --> 00:35:36,430
some of the film you know pretty

688
00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:41,720
involved story the snippets of that film

689
00:35:50,289 --> 00:35:45,950
later appeared an invocation of my demon

690
00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:50,299
brothers both Olli and Anton LaVey is a

691
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:53,240
cold eye oh there it is and also civil

692
00:36:00,220 --> 00:35:55,970
assembly guide civilly kyj Ustad it to

693
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:00,230
the list and so they had this falling

694
00:36:04,839 --> 00:36:02,450
out some you know there's all kinds of

695
00:36:06,730 --> 00:36:04,849
rumors and theories about the manson

696
00:36:10,089 --> 00:36:06,740
family and part of it was anger got

697
00:36:12,999 --> 00:36:10,099
pissed off at bozo lay and put a curse

698
00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:13,009
that led to the manson family members

699
00:36:24,809 --> 00:36:16,420
you know the mets and family murders

700
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:24,819
basel a later in the 70's wrote

701
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:28,130
performed the soundtrack for Lucifer

702
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:31,130
rising the second version of Lucifer

703
00:36:40,420 --> 00:36:34,250
rising which he recorded in prison in

704
00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:40,430
California see I kind of lost my train

705
00:36:47,859 --> 00:36:44,079
of thought but with the synchronicity I

706
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:47,869
was in 2009 there had been a revised

707
00:36:54,849 --> 00:36:50,089
edition of my Matson book the shadow

708
00:36:57,819 --> 00:36:54,859
over Santa Susana and I was I had a guy

709
00:37:00,700 --> 00:36:57,829
kind of working as an agent with me on

710
00:37:03,550 --> 00:37:00,710
that project and for that the

711
00:37:06,849 --> 00:37:03,560
release three release of that 2009 I had

712
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:06,859
a couple of gigs in Los Angeles I was

713
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:09,710
going to do and one of them we were

714
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:13,010
working on to do a reading or something

715
00:37:17,740 --> 00:37:15,290
was that place called the Museum of

716
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:17,750
Death and anyway it didn't work out but

717
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:20,930
we had gone down there beforehand to

718
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:23,089
meet with the owner of that place and we

719
00:37:31,089 --> 00:37:27,410
walk in and who's there but Kenneth

720
00:37:32,410 --> 00:37:31,099
Anger he's at the front desk talking to

721
00:37:34,210 --> 00:37:32,420
the owner of the place and I was just

722
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,220
blown away you know KITT

723
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:36,800
what's the chance chances of this and I

724
00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:40,010
think he was with the gentleman who was

725
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:41,750
supposed to be on your show tonight I

726
00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:45,530
think I know who that is but anger has a

727
00:37:52,089 --> 00:37:49,390
reputation of being a pretty moody

728
00:37:54,940 --> 00:37:52,099
unpredictable fellow and I didn't

729
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:54,950
approach him at that time and he was

730
00:38:01,329 --> 00:37:57,290
done with his business and he walked

731
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:01,339
away and we then we met with the owners

732
00:38:09,849 --> 00:38:07,760
of the Museum of Death there but it was

733
00:38:12,339 --> 00:38:09,859
one of those weekend's there was like a

734
00:38:14,020 --> 00:38:12,349
lot of synchronicities I remember we

735
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:14,030
were driving back I lived in central

736
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:16,910
California and a friend of mine wanted

737
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:18,800
to pack a cigarette so I went in and

738
00:38:25,180 --> 00:38:21,170
bought him a peck and brought the

739
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:25,190
receipt out and it said 666 on it cost

740
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:27,650
master I'm serious you can't think

741
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:30,770
because I have a good one well you know

742
00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:33,770
there is a remastered version of

743
00:38:38,980 --> 00:38:36,260
Kenneth's Sanger's I believe it's a

744
00:38:43,210 --> 00:38:38,990
Lucifer rising that's on the YouTube and

745
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:43,220
it is an incredible film I mean it's not

746
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:45,920
a Hollywood film but the colors and the

747
00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:49,030
colors and the visuals in it are just

748
00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:52,190
absolutely phenomenal and it's probably

749
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:55,910
one of the only the movies that has a an

750
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:58,400
authentic ritual have you seen that the

751
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:01,280
Valerie are you familiar with it yes yes

752
00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:05,089
I saw I thought in a um festival in um

753
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:07,580
in Greenwich Village some time ago but

754
00:39:10,810 --> 00:39:09,710
it's City I mean it's just it's amazing

755
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:10,820
it's amazing

756
00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:13,520
filmmaking and yeah and it's a ritual on

757
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:14,590
top of it

758
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:17,510
there you go hey let me add something

759
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:20,240
like I remembered I was going to say now

760
00:39:27,450 --> 00:39:22,570
when I was going through all that so

761
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:27,460
anger started working on Lucifer rising

762
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:30,850
like in the mid 70s and he approached

763
00:39:38,740 --> 00:39:34,670
Jimmy Page to come up with a soundtrack

764
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:38,750
for it and they arrived at some type of

765
00:39:43,690 --> 00:39:41,780
agreement and now here's that he's an

766
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:43,700
occult icon Jimmy Page for sure

767
00:39:52,270 --> 00:39:46,910
absolutely mad at that at that time he

768
00:39:55,930 --> 00:39:52,280
was living in Aleister Crowley's mansion

769
00:39:59,500 --> 00:39:55,940
it's called imagine that house near Loch

770
00:40:01,840 --> 00:39:59,510
NESA Loch Ness and thank you for all

771
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:01,850
skin hi house yep there you go bull

772
00:40:08,050 --> 00:40:05,330
scale and once again there's all kinds

773
00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:08,060
of weird stories about that place but

774
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:10,190
once again typical with anger they had

775
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:13,370
some type of falling out and that's

776
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:15,890
after after that is when he approached

777
00:40:20,890 --> 00:40:19,010
bought bosal a to do the Lucifer rising

778
00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:20,900
soundtrack which is a hell of a

779
00:40:27,010 --> 00:40:24,470
soundtrack to well you know Mick Jagger

780
00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:27,020
is credited with the music on one of

781
00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:29,270
those movies in the invocation of my

782
00:40:35,020 --> 00:40:32,150
demon brother which was which was

783
00:40:37,210 --> 00:40:35,030
opposed away it was yeah and of course

784
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:37,220
we know there at like to say Aleister

785
00:40:41,830 --> 00:40:39,170
Crowley lived there on the the banks of

786
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:41,840
Loch Ness and some people say that he

787
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:44,770
might have been responsible for

788
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:49,280
conjuring up the the serpent but well of

789
00:40:55,180 --> 00:40:52,270
course of course he was there can be no

790
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:55,190
and of course see Mecca he would take

791
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:58,130
credit for it no doubt that that house

792
00:41:00,310 --> 00:40:58,640
burned down

793
00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:00,320
to last year yeah that's what I heard

794
00:41:06,730 --> 00:41:04,160
yeah house yeah so another something and

795
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:06,740
there were reports of heads rolling at

796
00:41:09,070 --> 00:41:07,370
night

797
00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:09,080
I mean people wouldn't stay there the

798
00:41:16,570 --> 00:41:14,030
course III was I haven't over to England

799
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:16,580
you know a back in the 1980s give a

800
00:41:23,110 --> 00:41:19,850
little talk at the House of Lords and I

801
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:23,120
went up to it to Loch Ness and I was

802
00:41:27,130 --> 00:41:24,800
staying at a bed and breakfast there and

803
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:27,140
this woman was so impressed that I had

804
00:41:31,059 --> 00:41:28,160
spoken at the house of

805
00:41:33,579 --> 00:41:31,069
lords that she called the local minister

806
00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:33,589
and everybody else that she knew so that

807
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:35,900
they could come by and say hello and of

808
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:37,849
course I wanted to know every single

809
00:41:42,789 --> 00:41:39,710
Loch Ness monster have you ever seen a

810
00:41:44,859 --> 00:41:42,799
UFO and I would say I was surprised but

811
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,869
I guess I really wasn't surprised at the

812
00:41:49,089 --> 00:41:46,880
number of people who reported that UFOs

813
00:41:51,970 --> 00:41:49,099
had actually been seen over the Loch and

814
00:41:54,670 --> 00:41:51,980
I remember this one individual he was

815
00:41:56,380 --> 00:41:54,680
the milkman they were still delivering

816
00:41:59,470 --> 00:41:56,390
milk in a you know in vans and trucks

817
00:42:03,069 --> 00:41:59,480
over there and he said well he used to

818
00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:03,079
pass by moleska house but he wouldn't do

819
00:42:08,770 --> 00:42:05,510
it anymore because some weird rock

820
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:08,780
musician lives there and every time they

821
00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:12,170
went by the place his dog would go

822
00:42:17,309 --> 00:42:14,150
absolutely crazy and start digging up

823
00:42:22,270 --> 00:42:17,319
the carpeting under the front seat so he

824
00:42:23,950 --> 00:42:22,280
avoided the the the mansion and went

825
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:23,960
around even if it took him a little bit

826
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,450
longer to make his milk delivery route

827
00:42:31,390 --> 00:42:29,359
so now Valerie you wrote in the end the

828
00:42:35,260 --> 00:42:31,400
the chapter here in the book about the

829
00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:35,270
alien contacts of the 1970s could you go

830
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:37,670
to the little detail about that why

831
00:42:42,849 --> 00:42:39,950
these contacts were taking place and who

832
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:42,859
was involved in them as far as our cult

833
00:42:49,269 --> 00:42:46,910
icons go sure as Adam had mentioned

834
00:42:51,930 --> 00:42:49,279
before Sir Robert Anton Wilson and

835
00:42:54,730 --> 00:42:51,940
Philip a dick were both apparently

836
00:42:57,970 --> 00:42:54,740
contacted by some types of entities

837
00:42:59,799 --> 00:42:57,980
around the same time kind of giving them

838
00:43:02,680 --> 00:42:59,809
similar information and at the same this

839
00:43:05,950 --> 00:43:02,690
is the early to mid 70s and at the same

840
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:05,960
time Timothy Leary was receiving his

841
00:43:11,620 --> 00:43:09,200
Starseed transmissions as he called them

842
00:43:15,339 --> 00:43:11,630
I think also some serious like Roberto

843
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:15,349
Chad Wilson and that information was

844
00:43:19,630 --> 00:43:17,359
kind of similar to what Robert Anton

845
00:43:22,089 --> 00:43:19,640
Wilson and Sergey dick we're getting at

846
00:43:24,430 --> 00:43:22,099
the same time and then the head of the

847
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:24,440
Heaven's Gate called Marshall Applewhite

848
00:43:30,460 --> 00:43:27,920
was also getting it was also contacted

849
00:43:34,089 --> 00:43:30,470
by these types of alien entities around

850
00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:34,099
the same time period and then I guess I

851
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:35,900
was a just kind of going down the list

852
00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:37,730
and of how many people exactly were

853
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:39,780
contacted between

854
00:43:49,220 --> 00:43:46,710
let's say 1972 and 1977 and it was a lot

855
00:43:51,530 --> 00:43:49,230
of people and I just wondered why you

856
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:51,540
know like why was it all sort of this

857
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:53,970
mass effort by something to contact all

858
00:44:00,220 --> 00:43:56,130
these people and to contact people who

859
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:00,230
were the media who were authors and

860
00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:05,250
gurus um he's very fascinating stuff and

861
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:07,380
of course David Bowie who you mentioned

862
00:44:13,310 --> 00:44:11,130
in the the article by who I had met in

863
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:13,320
fact has written quite a bit about about

864
00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:17,880
his interest in the occult he actually I

865
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:22,470
guess it's studied seriously the the

866
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:24,420
parent of the paranormal and occult in

867
00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:27,210
fact we had a mutual friend they uh the

868
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:28,830
White Witch of New York a lady by the

869
00:44:33,830 --> 00:44:31,920
name of Wally L Mark and she taught at

870
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:33,840
the the New York School of Arts and

871
00:44:40,910 --> 00:44:37,260
Sciences which I had founded in the oh I

872
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:40,920
guess late 1960s and it ran for maybe a

873
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,400
10 years in one form or another and you

874
00:44:49,580 --> 00:44:46,560
know we gave work we had workshops and

875
00:44:51,770 --> 00:44:49,590
lectures and conferences and sometimes

876
00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:51,780
we'd have you know a pretty good

877
00:44:57,260 --> 00:44:54,630
attendance and other times we would just

878
00:44:59,780 --> 00:44:57,270
have a small you know a group of

879
00:45:01,520 --> 00:44:59,790
intimate a gathering of people who

880
00:45:04,610 --> 00:45:01,530
showed up for seances and the take

881
00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:04,620
classes and astral projection and and so

882
00:45:08,990 --> 00:45:08,070
forth anyway a Walia elm like my friend

883
00:45:11,540 --> 00:45:09,000
Wally the witch

884
00:45:14,810 --> 00:45:11,550
I did a column for circus magazine a

885
00:45:17,450 --> 00:45:14,820
circus was kind of the poor man's

886
00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:17,460
equivalent to the Rolling Stones I it

887
00:45:23,810 --> 00:45:20,660
was a glossy magazine with a lot of

888
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:23,820
headbangers in the heavy metal and I'm

889
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:25,500
sure that Jimmy Page and Robert Plant

890
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:27,090
must have been on the the cover of the

891
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:31,410
magazine dozens and dozens oh yeah dives

892
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:36,210
right and anyway Bowie was extremely

893
00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:39,570
interested in these subjects and of

894
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:41,400
course he had any number of UFO

895
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:44,160
sightings wasn't he also a follower

896
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,290
follower of Aleister Crowley and it

897
00:45:50,450 --> 00:45:48,480
showed up in some of his albums and in

898
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:50,460
some of the designs of his clothing and

899
00:45:55,850 --> 00:45:53,520
so forth yeah I think there was a

900
00:45:57,980 --> 00:45:55,860
I don't like that like a sort of a

901
00:46:01,400 --> 00:45:57,990
Kabbalah a tree of life in the back of

902
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:01,410
like one of his albums and yeah I

903
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:03,810
believe he he was a look at a leg up

904
00:46:08,270 --> 00:46:05,880
into the follower of Crowley but he was

905
00:46:11,180 --> 00:46:08,280
definitely into the occult and he's also

906
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:11,190
a character in philip k dick book rellis

907
00:46:18,430 --> 00:46:14,970
Oh tell us about that yes yeah yes he

908
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,440
based one of the characters of the um I

909
00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:20,400
forgot his first name last name with a

910
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:23,310
clamp Caen on Bowie and he was sort of

911
00:46:29,810 --> 00:46:26,610
like he's the de facto father of this

912
00:46:31,490 --> 00:46:29,820
child Messiah called valise

913
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:31,500
and so it was very interesting but at

914
00:46:35,870 --> 00:46:33,780
the same time David Bowie was paranoid

915
00:46:39,110 --> 00:46:35,880
that he was going to be kidnapped and

916
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:39,120
forced to father the Messiah that that's

917
00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:43,170
correct by witbier witches I in fact he

918
00:46:48,410 --> 00:46:45,630
was married at the time to Angela Bowie

919
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:48,420
and they had I guess just bought a house

920
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:50,370
somewhere out there in California and he

921
00:46:54,290 --> 00:46:52,410
was pretty stoned most of the time I

922
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:54,300
mean he doesn't even deny it in fact

923
00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:56,010
there's a book that he wrote and he did

924
00:47:01,040 --> 00:46:58,170
a chapter on me and Wally uh in there

925
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:01,050
you know and he was you know he was

926
00:47:04,490 --> 00:47:02,730
getting messages and of course like you

927
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:04,500
say he was afraid that he was going to

928
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:06,180
be kidnapped and they actually had a

929
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:08,640
demon the face of a demon there the body

930
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:10,380
of a demon had showed up at the bottom

931
00:47:14,090 --> 00:47:12,330
of the swimming pool and they had an

932
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:14,100
exorcism they had called my friend Wally

933
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:16,110
to get that you know of a ritual that

934
00:47:19,550 --> 00:47:17,730
they could repeat to try to get rid of

935
00:47:23,210 --> 00:47:19,560
the demons and in the middle of doing

936
00:47:27,940 --> 00:47:23,220
the ritual the water in the pool started

937
00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:27,950
to bubble so I I would say of all the

938
00:47:34,460 --> 00:47:32,460
musical of cult icon David Bowie was the

939
00:47:37,310 --> 00:47:34,470
the man as far as the occult goes

940
00:47:40,670 --> 00:47:37,320
serious interest in the occult and in

941
00:47:42,490 --> 00:47:40,680
humans and we're coming up to our break

942
00:47:50,060 --> 00:47:42,500
and we'll be back in just

943
00:47:54,809 --> 00:47:52,320
[Music]

944
00:48:01,770 --> 00:47:59,829
explode the bazaar or e-ticket ride is

945
00:48:05,049 --> 00:48:01,780
the world of the paranormal

946
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:05,059
strap yourself in as we traverse the

947
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:09,130
universe exploring the unexplained UFO

948
00:48:14,859 --> 00:48:12,490
ghost lost world

949
00:48:18,730 --> 00:48:14,869
cryptozoology as well as other

950
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:18,740
dimensions it's time to take back the

951
00:48:24,609 --> 00:48:21,010
NASA night

952
00:48:30,510 --> 00:48:24,619
now your electrifying hosts of exploring

953
00:48:37,299 --> 00:48:32,650
right welcome back to exploring the

954
00:48:39,730 --> 00:48:37,309
bizarre we are now within the second

955
00:48:42,940 --> 00:48:39,740
segment of our show we're going to

956
00:48:46,420 --> 00:48:42,950
continue our conversation about a cult

957
00:48:48,819 --> 00:48:46,430
icons philip k dick synchronicities and

958
00:48:53,289 --> 00:48:48,829
just all kinds of other weird and

959
00:48:57,630 --> 00:48:53,299
interesting things and and Valerie in

960
00:49:03,940 --> 00:48:57,640
our last segment you were talking about

961
00:49:08,019 --> 00:49:03,950
the the chapter that was included in our

962
00:49:12,029 --> 00:49:08,029
book that were you were writing about a

963
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:12,039
lot of these basically you know

964
00:49:18,690 --> 00:49:14,690
countercultural leaders in the in the

965
00:49:22,140 --> 00:49:18,700
70s all seem to be you know having these

966
00:49:25,870 --> 00:49:22,150
contacts by you know alleged

967
00:49:29,980 --> 00:49:25,880
extraterrestrials and you made a very

968
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:29,990
good point I think about one of the

969
00:49:36,220 --> 00:49:34,730
reasons why this may be happening and so

970
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:36,230
you know I'm giving you a leading

971
00:49:40,210 --> 00:49:37,460
question here and I hope you know what

972
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:40,220
I'm referring to would you like to

973
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:46,430
comment on that this um yeah you mean

974
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:49,010
like uh that they were there being

975
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:50,450
contacted because they were part of the

976
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:54,250
media that's what that and that they

977
00:49:59,319 --> 00:49:57,200
they were leaders in you know their

978
00:50:01,089 --> 00:49:59,329
field I mean you know they they really

979
00:50:06,089 --> 00:50:01,099
had a pretty pretty large audience so to

980
00:50:08,140 --> 00:50:06,099
speak absolutely absolutely um I mean

981
00:50:10,359 --> 00:50:08,150
you know I

982
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:10,369
I try to maintain a certain skeptical

983
00:50:14,799 --> 00:50:12,890
mind of everything but it does seem to

984
00:50:18,670 --> 00:50:14,809
me like it was some sort of concerted

985
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:18,680
effort to systematically contact people

986
00:50:23,769 --> 00:50:20,569
who would have reached the most amount

987
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:23,779
of listeners about this sort of

988
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:25,760
information

989
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:28,910
so either you know alien coded for

990
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:31,450
aliens or contacting them or entities or

991
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:35,359
you know maybe you know or maybe they

992
00:50:39,309 --> 00:50:37,250
were just picking up something of his I

993
00:50:42,190 --> 00:50:39,319
guys but uh but definitely it seemed

994
00:50:43,839 --> 00:50:42,200
like something was happening and I and I

995
00:50:46,809 --> 00:50:43,849
do see ur eyes that I wonder if like

996
00:50:50,799 --> 00:50:46,819
every 20 years or so this type of thing

997
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:50,809
keeps reoccurring um welcome to day 15

998
00:50:57,279 --> 00:50:52,970
through a lot of UFO contact in the

999
00:51:00,039 --> 00:50:57,289
mid-90s there was a lot of UFO /

1000
00:51:01,510 --> 00:51:00,049
conspiracy / channeling type stuff I'm

1001
00:51:05,319 --> 00:51:01,520
just wondering if it's part of that

1002
00:51:07,420 --> 00:51:05,329
larger pattern now of course just

1003
00:51:11,529 --> 00:51:07,430
playing devil's advocate here you know

1004
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:11,539
especially in the 1960s you know the the

1005
00:51:20,260 --> 00:51:16,400
CIA got a lot of LSD from Sandow's

1006
00:51:23,859 --> 00:51:20,270
laboratories specifically to try to

1007
00:51:26,109 --> 00:51:23,869
disarm the anti-war movement that was

1008
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:26,119
going on by just loading everybody up

1009
00:51:32,529 --> 00:51:29,200
with all kinds of different pom drugs

1010
00:51:35,140 --> 00:51:32,539
you know could could any of this have

1011
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:35,150
been you know part of a CIA

1012
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:41,450
you know MKULTRA a type of plot I mean

1013
00:51:47,109 --> 00:51:44,510
it's it's it's very well possible you

1014
00:51:49,089 --> 00:51:47,119
know Peter lives and his excellent book

1015
00:51:52,029 --> 00:51:49,099
series sinister force which kind of goes

1016
00:51:54,730 --> 00:51:52,039
into that question it also goes into the

1017
00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:54,740
question could the CIA have been doing

1018
00:51:59,950 --> 00:51:56,390
this but at the same time sort of

1019
00:52:02,529 --> 00:51:59,960
opening doors to actual paranormal stuff

1020
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:02,539
on top of it with their use of the LSD

1021
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:05,359
and and Cayla and stuff like that I mean

1022
00:52:11,740 --> 00:52:10,160
could those hypotheses be true well and

1023
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:11,750
you have you have people like you know

1024
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:12,680
Terence Mckenna

1025
00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:17,440
who I mean they he definitely felt that

1026
00:52:25,179 --> 00:52:21,049
using EMT

1027
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:25,189
open this up to some other type of you

1028
00:52:29,559 --> 00:52:28,130
know intelligence and other reality you

1029
00:52:31,149 --> 00:52:29,569
know he speculated that you know

1030
00:52:34,029 --> 00:52:31,159
mushrooms you know psychedelic your

1031
00:52:36,489 --> 00:52:34,039
suicide in mushrooms could be an

1032
00:52:38,819 --> 00:52:36,499
intelligence in themselves and this was

1033
00:52:44,489 --> 00:52:38,829
the way that they you know would

1034
00:52:47,799 --> 00:52:44,499
communicate with mankind so I think that

1035
00:52:51,130 --> 00:52:47,809
considering all of these uh highly

1036
00:52:53,469 --> 00:52:51,140
influential people who you know who were

1037
00:52:56,319 --> 00:52:53,479
having these kinds of experiences and

1038
00:53:01,299 --> 00:52:56,329
writing about them you know this this

1039
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:01,309
really opened up a whole new area of

1040
00:53:05,169 --> 00:53:03,529
thought you know not just with these

1041
00:53:07,569 --> 00:53:05,179
people but with their you know they're

1042
00:53:12,189 --> 00:53:07,579
the readers and followers as well well

1043
00:53:15,579 --> 00:53:12,199
you know didn't andre polaric in the I

1044
00:53:18,729 --> 00:53:15,589
guess the early 1950s he worked it with

1045
00:53:20,709 --> 00:53:18,739
the the CIA some people say he was a an

1046
00:53:22,329 --> 00:53:20,719
agent perhaps and I would know him

1047
00:53:24,399 --> 00:53:22,339
writing a book I don't remember the

1048
00:53:26,139 --> 00:53:24,409
exact name but it was the maybe the

1049
00:53:28,809 --> 00:53:26,149
cross of the mushroom is that the name

1050
00:53:31,449 --> 00:53:28,819
do you think Adam the name of the book

1051
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:31,459
was the sacred mushroom this sacred well

1052
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:33,649
I got mushroom in there I guess I ate

1053
00:53:38,919 --> 00:53:37,130
the recipe but what what was that you

1054
00:53:42,639 --> 00:53:38,929
remember the concept of the book was

1055
00:53:44,499 --> 00:53:42,649
that that that he had tested mushrooms

1056
00:53:49,059 --> 00:53:44,509
and thought that they uh what a new

1057
00:53:52,179 --> 00:53:49,069
awareness with them ah yeah that's the

1058
00:53:56,409 --> 00:53:52,189
short version and we were talking about

1059
00:53:58,689 --> 00:53:56,419
the you know MKULTRA and the CIA a and P

1060
00:54:03,599 --> 00:53:58,699
Herrick was involved in a lot of that

1061
00:54:07,419 --> 00:54:03,609
stuff he was based out of Fort Detrick

1062
00:54:09,789 --> 00:54:07,429
during the same period that the the you

1063
00:54:13,209 --> 00:54:09,799
know this events happened around his

1064
00:54:17,499 --> 00:54:13,219
book the sacred mushroom so he has he

1065
00:54:20,769 --> 00:54:17,509
had you know he had feet in both worlds

1066
00:54:25,769 --> 00:54:20,779
you know the the occult and also you

1067
00:54:28,329 --> 00:54:25,779
know being a scientist who was involved

1068
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:28,339
post-world War two and a lot of those

1069
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:33,249
activities about influencing human

1070
00:54:36,970 --> 00:54:34,850
behavior

1071
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:36,980
a science and all that stuff but as a

1072
00:54:44,860 --> 00:54:43,130
story goes as I recall around 52 a lot

1073
00:54:48,370 --> 00:54:44,870
of the events and the sacred mushroom

1074
00:54:51,610 --> 00:54:48,380
happened where he had started that a

1075
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:51,620
group called pig was called the round

1076
00:54:56,170 --> 00:54:54,050
table and they were up and not Ossining

1077
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:56,180
New York or Maine I think originally

1078
00:55:01,060 --> 00:54:58,880
maybe it was late later he was in

1079
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:01,070
Ossining and yeah he's but this was

1080
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:04,250
before that so Maine or Vermont or

1081
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:07,520
somewhere whatever the case and he

1082
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:11,090
brought in a bunch of psychics to work

1083
00:55:15,340 --> 00:55:13,040
on this project and they had funding

1084
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:15,350
from different sources you know it could

1085
00:55:21,730 --> 00:55:17,440
have been a CIA front there was

1086
00:55:23,130 --> 00:55:21,740
industrialists and people like oh who's

1087
00:55:26,110 --> 00:55:23,140
the dude who invented the bill

1088
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:26,120
helicopter his name escapes me now but

1089
00:55:30,970 --> 00:55:28,970
there was a lot of VIPs kind of yeah

1090
00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:30,980
well I had I had met some of the members

1091
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:33,470
of that group I remember there was a

1092
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:38,450
fellow who was the heir to the I don't

1093
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:40,690
know it was the white out fortune or

1094
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:45,200
something like that and he was a big big

1095
00:55:49,420 --> 00:55:47,570
a vegetarian and he would go to like

1096
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:49,430
Woodstock along with a couple of sheep

1097
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:52,510
with him I can remember his name but

1098
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:55,760
they were a pretty wild that crew you

1099
00:55:59,500 --> 00:55:57,290
know I mean yeah if they were working

1100
00:56:04,000 --> 00:55:59,510
for the CIA they had some pretty wack

1101
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:04,010
people on payroll well yeah yeah I'm

1102
00:56:07,300 --> 00:56:05,330
sorry a lot of people have those

1103
00:56:10,180 --> 00:56:07,310
connections let me finish this up real

1104
00:56:12,070 --> 00:56:10,190
quick so what what they came across you

1105
00:56:15,130 --> 00:56:12,080
know he had these psychics and they were

1106
00:56:18,250 --> 00:56:15,140
that's kind of when the whole nine thing

1107
00:56:22,180 --> 00:56:18,260
started they get that present asked yeah

1108
00:56:25,870 --> 00:56:22,190
but what they came across was Amanita

1109
00:56:27,940 --> 00:56:25,880
muscaria was growing in the area and one

1110
00:56:30,910 --> 00:56:27,950
of the psychics tried it a couple of

1111
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:30,920
them took em Anita muscaria which is

1112
00:56:36,220 --> 00:56:33,050
different than psilocybin and Juanita

1113
00:56:39,450 --> 00:56:36,230
muscaria is the red mushrooms with the

1114
00:56:42,580 --> 00:56:39,460
white dots and the they went into

1115
00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:42,590
trances and started channeling ancient

1116
00:56:48,099 --> 00:56:45,710
Egyptian gods and stuff and that became

1117
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,109
the first contact with

1118
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:50,319
you know what they later called the nine

1119
00:56:55,209 --> 00:56:53,119
Nonya what would uri geller was actually

1120
00:56:58,479 --> 00:56:55,219
a part of even though i don't think he

1121
00:57:01,150 --> 00:56:58,489
plays it up anymore but he was a part of

1122
00:57:02,739 --> 00:57:01,160
that kind of on the outskirts of that

1123
00:57:07,870 --> 00:57:02,749
group yeah

1124
00:57:09,989 --> 00:57:07,880
later on in Ossining no rod and

1125
00:57:14,650 --> 00:57:09,999
Roddenberry was involved in that as well

1126
00:57:17,199 --> 00:57:14,660
mm-hmm yeah yep well what should go

1127
00:57:21,269 --> 00:57:17,209
ahead and talk about a gallery oh sure

1128
00:57:23,529 --> 00:57:21,279
um yeah I think he had contacts with the

1129
00:57:26,859 --> 00:57:23,539
people who are channeling the nine and

1130
00:57:28,839 --> 00:57:26,869
also the inspiration from it that you

1131
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:28,849
can see in a bunch of different episodes

1132
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,690
of Star Trek and also um some of the

1133
00:57:35,469 --> 00:57:34,160
people who are in that Roundtable I

1134
00:57:39,150 --> 00:57:35,479
think we're also kind of connected to

1135
00:57:42,339 --> 00:57:39,160
the John F Kennedy assassination we can

1136
00:57:44,739 --> 00:57:42,349
gentlelady I big me bill every everybody

1137
00:57:47,289 --> 00:57:44,749
everybody everybody was connected with

1138
00:57:49,329 --> 00:57:47,299
the station case doesn't in fact we have

1139
00:57:52,599 --> 00:57:49,339
a new book out we have a new book out

1140
00:57:54,910 --> 00:57:52,609
where the family of Admiral Richard II

1141
00:57:57,539 --> 00:57:54,920
bird is connected to the the

1142
00:58:01,529 --> 00:57:57,549
assassination in kind of a strange

1143
00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:01,539
synchronistic way now this those CIA

1144
00:58:10,779 --> 00:58:06,079
connections carried on into the 70s

1145
00:58:15,099 --> 00:58:10,789
that's when Geller and Pew Hara cooked

1146
00:58:17,289 --> 00:58:15,109
up and you know Geller was this new

1147
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:17,299
psychic sensation and they sent him out

1148
00:58:22,900 --> 00:58:20,079
to s RI the Stanford Research Institute

1149
00:58:25,769 --> 00:58:22,910
where they did all those psychic

1150
00:58:28,269 --> 00:58:25,779
experiments with help it off and I

1151
00:58:31,209 --> 00:58:28,279
forget some of the good those guys who

1152
00:58:37,289 --> 00:58:31,219
later were connected to the aviary and

1153
00:58:43,439 --> 00:58:40,719
Geller started around that time is when

1154
00:58:47,969 --> 00:58:43,449
he was working with Pew horik who was a

1155
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:47,979
people have said as a master hypnotist

1156
00:58:54,430 --> 00:58:51,170
Park reportedly you know put him into a

1157
00:58:56,890 --> 00:58:54,440
trance and that's when Geller started

1158
00:59:00,040 --> 00:58:56,900
channeling something called spectra

1159
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:00,050
which sounded a lot like valise you know

1160
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:03,650
so it's it's just a never-ending rabbit

1161
00:59:10,030 --> 00:59:05,690
hole they start connecting all these

1162
00:59:13,930 --> 00:59:10,040
people yep now Valerie did you ever beat

1163
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:13,940
Robert Anton Wilson oh yeah I think

1164
00:59:18,190 --> 00:59:16,010
that's a like my two big idols are

1165
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:18,200
silicate akin Robert Anton Wilson and

1166
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:20,000
I'm really influenced by Robert and

1167
00:59:24,130 --> 00:59:22,490
Robert Anton Wilson twerk but did you

1168
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:24,140
did you I did you meet him I have a

1169
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:25,730
conversation with him oh I have it oh

1170
00:59:31,410 --> 00:59:28,910
did I meet him I was it um no I've never

1171
00:59:34,540 --> 00:59:31,420
I've never met him I wish I wish I had

1172
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:34,550
well Adam you did though right yes

1173
00:59:37,810 --> 00:59:35,570
uh-huh

1174
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:37,820
and I was your impression I mean what

1175
00:59:42,970 --> 00:59:40,370
was your conversations like oh he was a

1176
00:59:45,420 --> 00:59:42,980
great guy was Ana's working on my book

1177
00:59:49,390 --> 00:59:45,430
the prankster on the conspiracy about

1178
00:59:52,330 --> 00:59:49,400
Carrie Thornley who this brings in the

1179
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:52,340
Kennedy assassination would Discordian

1180
00:59:58,840 --> 00:59:55,570
society and Wilson was a part of that

1181
01:00:03,460 --> 00:59:58,850
back in the day so yeah it was like in

1182
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:03,470
it was 2001 I interviewed him and got to

1183
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:05,930
know him well he was a great guy

1184
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:10,250
consider him mentor he was very generous

1185
01:00:15,490 --> 01:00:12,650
this is at a time where his health was

1186
01:00:21,010 --> 01:00:15,500
starting to fill so it was kind of rough

1187
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:21,020
for him getting around that he was a you

1188
01:00:25,210 --> 01:00:23,200
know he was a real trooper it was

1189
01:00:31,150 --> 01:00:25,220
interesting I was thinking about this

1190
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:31,160
today after I interviewed him it was

1191
01:00:36,970 --> 01:00:34,730
like I think it was May 2001 Myles Lewis

1192
01:00:41,650 --> 01:00:36,980
he might know glass oh yeah he's got a

1193
01:00:45,130 --> 01:00:41,660
shell course yeah he was organizing the

1194
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:45,140
is at the new Fogg conference that Jim

1195
01:00:48,970 --> 01:00:47,090
Mosley well yeah yeah and that was at

1196
01:00:53,590 --> 01:00:48,980
9/11 and they cancelled it it's a letter

1197
01:00:56,890 --> 01:00:53,600
right yeah yeah sure and I helped Myles

1198
01:00:59,230 --> 01:00:56,900
knew I knew Wilson so could you get hit

1199
01:01:01,540 --> 01:00:59,240
Wilson to come to the event so I kind of

1200
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:01,550
worked as a intermediary and they were

1201
01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:03,530
going to you know give him one of these

1202
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:06,260
Lifetime Achievement like I got I got

1203
01:01:12,300 --> 01:01:08,570
two of them on my desk over here yeah

1204
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:12,310
that shows you how much they're worth

1205
01:01:17,540 --> 01:01:14,890
you know work towards the end the

1206
01:01:20,580 --> 01:01:17,550
organization had no money so I think

1207
01:01:22,740 --> 01:01:20,590
Anton what's his name Antonio who Naas

1208
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:22,750
they gave him like a piece of paper it

1209
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:24,400
turned out to be like a squirrel my

1210
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:26,890
minor plaque went first started out to

1211
01:01:32,190 --> 01:01:28,690
be like a figure of some kind you know

1212
01:01:33,870 --> 01:01:32,200
and then it turned into a a plaque which

1213
01:01:35,250 --> 01:01:33,880
I went out and got myself actually

1214
01:01:37,980 --> 01:01:35,260
because Jim would know even where to get

1215
01:01:41,010 --> 01:01:37,990
a plaque and then it turned into a you

1216
01:01:42,660 --> 01:01:41,020
know a scroll at the at the end so poor

1217
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:42,670
Antonio got stuck with the squirrel

1218
01:01:47,610 --> 01:01:45,850
instead of a plaque so yeah miles put

1219
01:01:49,590 --> 01:01:47,620
together what was going to be a pretty

1220
01:01:51,450 --> 01:01:49,600
good conference I have a poster for it

1221
01:01:56,490 --> 01:01:51,460
on the wall which course didn't happen

1222
01:01:58,740 --> 01:01:56,500
because 9/11 went down the you know the

1223
01:02:02,490 --> 01:01:58,750
day before it was like well so much for

1224
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:02,500
my Davis canceled the event nope you

1225
01:02:11,250 --> 01:02:06,640
know airplane flights were canceled for

1226
01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:11,260
a few days there now you know what I

1227
01:02:19,140 --> 01:02:13,990
wanted to get into though - let's talk

1228
01:02:21,300 --> 01:02:19,150
about the dark side of this now how

1229
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:21,310
about like we've got people like of

1230
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:23,770
course you've written about the Charles

1231
01:02:30,930 --> 01:02:28,810
Manson and we have Anton LaVey the head

1232
01:02:33,690 --> 01:02:30,940
of the Satanic church

1233
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:33,700
what other occult figures or cult

1234
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:36,400
figures would you put in that category

1235
01:02:40,530 --> 01:02:39,010
because certainly all of the figures

1236
01:02:43,830 --> 01:02:40,540
from the 60s and 70s

1237
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:43,840
we're not sweetness and light the dark

1238
01:02:48,420 --> 01:02:45,910
side of the occult well you could go a

1239
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:48,430
lot of different directions with like

1240
01:02:52,860 --> 01:02:51,520
and I guess the serial killers and I

1241
01:02:55,830 --> 01:02:52,870
guess it depends on what you consider

1242
01:02:59,630 --> 01:02:55,840
the dark side yeah I mean a lot matters

1243
01:03:03,050 --> 01:02:59,640
there's a lot of Mythology around

1244
01:03:05,850 --> 01:03:03,060
Aleister Crowley how oh yes you know I

1245
01:03:08,670 --> 01:03:05,860
really don't know but yeah there is some

1246
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:08,680
truth to dabbling in you know these

1247
01:03:18,540 --> 01:03:13,450
areas sometimes you need to be careful

1248
01:03:21,570 --> 01:03:18,550
what you wish for you know to to be able

1249
01:03:23,790 --> 01:03:21,580
to contact these different spirits

1250
01:03:25,660 --> 01:03:23,800
sometimes it doesn't work it out too

1251
01:03:27,799 --> 01:03:25,670
well for folks

1252
01:03:29,839 --> 01:03:27,809
and what were some of the things that

1253
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:29,849
well a court now did any of the people

1254
01:03:34,910 --> 01:03:32,970
that were involved in the the Charles

1255
01:03:38,089 --> 01:03:34,920
Manson group were they into the occult

1256
01:03:39,620 --> 01:03:38,099
at all I know they talked about the the

1257
01:03:41,930 --> 01:03:39,630
Inner Earth I think was part of their

1258
01:03:43,910 --> 01:03:41,940
picture at one point right oh they were

1259
01:03:46,819 --> 01:03:43,920
totally steeped in the occult for sure

1260
01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:46,829
we talked about Bobby Beausoleil earlier

1261
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:50,160
he had those Kenneth Anger connections

1262
01:03:57,140 --> 01:03:53,359
and Kenneth Anger turned him on to

1263
01:03:58,940 --> 01:03:57,150
Aleister Crowley also Susan Atkins who

1264
01:04:04,490 --> 01:03:58,950
was one of the Manson Family murders she

1265
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:04,500
also had a prior relationship with Anton

1266
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:08,000
LaVey before the Manson Family she was a

1267
01:04:16,099 --> 01:04:13,170
like a topless dancer for a satanic

1268
01:04:17,809 --> 01:04:16,109
review that Anton LaVey put on so

1269
01:04:20,990 --> 01:04:17,819
there's a there there's all kinds of

1270
01:04:24,859 --> 01:04:21,000
those connections related to the Manson

1271
01:04:28,220 --> 01:04:24,869
Family they were definitely into the

1272
01:04:29,380 --> 01:04:28,230
occult which she knows hid knowledge

1273
01:04:33,020 --> 01:04:29,390
secrets

1274
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:33,030
well I'm sure now Valerie are have you

1275
01:04:39,140 --> 01:04:36,410
ever have you had any synchronicities oh

1276
01:04:42,099 --> 01:04:39,150
I've had tons and tons and tons of

1277
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:42,109
synchronous well I'm out a few on us

1278
01:04:48,289 --> 01:04:45,690
sure um bloody human connection with the

1279
01:04:51,470 --> 01:04:48,299
UM your your matrix control system

1280
01:04:54,410 --> 01:04:51,480
associated book the morning I received

1281
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:54,420
the book I had a dream that I found a

1282
01:05:00,319 --> 01:04:57,450
black wallet on the ground and I had to

1283
01:05:03,710 --> 01:05:00,329
give it back to someone and then late

1284
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:03,720
that day we decided to get to go out and

1285
01:05:08,660 --> 01:05:06,089
get some ice cream at the local 7-eleven

1286
01:05:11,030 --> 01:05:08,670
and in the park and before we got the

1287
01:05:13,069 --> 01:05:11,040
ice cream we noticed that the books had

1288
01:05:15,140 --> 01:05:13,079
just arrived in the mail so I opened up

1289
01:05:17,180 --> 01:05:15,150
the the carton I was like oh I'm so

1290
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:17,190
excited to finally get this book and

1291
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:19,200
then we walked to get the ice cream and

1292
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:22,170
in the parking lot was the black wallet

1293
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:24,569
and I think you know picked it up and I

1294
01:05:28,579 --> 01:05:26,160
said you know the same thing like in my

1295
01:05:31,220 --> 01:05:28,589
dream oh I've got to give us back to

1296
01:05:36,020 --> 01:05:31,230
this person uh maybe that's what

1297
01:05:37,130 --> 01:05:36,030
happened to bye miss Lee credit card now

1298
01:05:38,750 --> 01:05:37,140
that would have been something you have

1299
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:38,760
found that in the parking lot because I

1300
01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:39,210
was in

1301
01:05:46,130 --> 01:05:43,920
Brooklyn salcedo Wow that's a good

1302
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:46,140
synchronicity that is yeah that's

1303
01:05:51,050 --> 01:05:49,530
related to the book to sort of and and

1304
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:51,060
so what do you what do you what do you

1305
01:05:55,609 --> 01:05:52,530
make of this I mean do you think that

1306
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:55,619
we're all is somebody going to like like

1307
01:06:00,020 --> 01:05:57,930
a pull the wires of one night and we

1308
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:00,030
won't be here anymore I mean how how do

1309
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:04,260
you see this living in a matrix type of

1310
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:06,240
am indeed do you think we are a computer

1311
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:10,890
simulation oh well I think that I I mean

1312
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:13,680
I think everybody has their reality I

1313
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:16,050
think it's very subjective and then it's

1314
01:06:21,290 --> 01:06:18,690
very subjective to each person I don't

1315
01:06:23,420 --> 01:06:21,300
think we're not all sharing I think the

1316
01:06:25,970 --> 01:06:23,430
same reality for sharing kind of a

1317
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:25,980
consensus reality so that's like right

1318
01:06:29,210 --> 01:06:27,839
on ground level I think in reality is

1319
01:06:33,020 --> 01:06:29,220
different for every person at least

1320
01:06:34,910 --> 01:06:33,030
slightly and then I mean I I don't know

1321
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:34,920
for a computer simulation but I think

1322
01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:38,130
you know there's more out there going on

1323
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:40,710
than you know I think we've been taught

1324
01:06:48,550 --> 01:06:44,250
in school and well that have we ever

1325
01:06:52,490 --> 01:06:48,560
been taught anything in school hahaha

1326
01:06:55,099 --> 01:06:52,500
exactly exactly but yeah I mean and

1327
01:06:57,880 --> 01:06:55,109
synchronicities I think of the way the

1328
01:07:03,050 --> 01:06:57,890
universe tries to get our attention

1329
01:07:05,420 --> 01:07:03,060
about things it's interesting you

1330
01:07:07,550 --> 01:07:05,430
mentioned synchronicity around a book

1331
01:07:10,430 --> 01:07:07,560
projects that that's where a lot of my

1332
01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:10,440
synchronicities have happened related to

1333
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:14,089
a book project that there's quite a few

1334
01:07:19,940 --> 01:07:17,330
and I you know I I do notice that

1335
01:07:22,130 --> 01:07:19,950
synchronicity you know John keel of

1336
01:07:24,140 --> 01:07:22,140
course who kind of wrote about this you

1337
01:07:27,230 --> 01:07:24,150
know a type of thing he had his super

1338
01:07:29,630 --> 01:07:27,240
spectrum which were like towers that

1339
01:07:32,450 --> 01:07:29,640
were built or underground or something

1340
01:07:34,430 --> 01:07:32,460
in different parts of the world I forget

1341
01:07:36,290 --> 01:07:34,440
exactly what that's pretty close to what

1342
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:36,300
he says because I remember reading it in

1343
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:40,650
the and the book here but you know I I

1344
01:07:44,450 --> 01:07:42,720
just I just think that it you know there

1345
01:07:46,579 --> 01:07:44,460
could be two explanations for this it

1346
01:07:49,250 --> 01:07:46,589
could be that somebody like Charles four

1347
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:49,260
says you know we are under the control

1348
01:07:53,420 --> 01:07:52,650
of some you know a master that we're

1349
01:07:55,130 --> 01:07:53,430
pieces of

1350
01:07:57,799 --> 01:07:55,140
you know we're like on a chessboard you

1351
01:08:01,160 --> 01:07:57,809
know pieces on a chess board or it could

1352
01:08:04,130 --> 01:08:01,170
have been that somewhere at the

1353
01:08:06,589 --> 01:08:04,140
beginning of creation some a group of

1354
01:08:10,670 --> 01:08:06,599
aliens let's go for lack of a better

1355
01:08:12,980 --> 01:08:10,680
term I came along and set up this matrix

1356
01:08:15,559 --> 01:08:12,990
I call it like a giant fish bowl and

1357
01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:15,569
then they had then they left they

1358
01:08:20,959 --> 01:08:17,910
programmed it and perhaps they come back

1359
01:08:25,220 --> 01:08:20,969
every once in a while to check to see if

1360
01:08:27,470 --> 01:08:25,230
their subjects are any more advanced and

1361
01:08:29,809 --> 01:08:27,480
when they find out that there they're

1362
01:08:32,689 --> 01:08:29,819
not they disappear for another couple of

1363
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:32,699
thousands years you know or maybe at

1364
01:08:36,979 --> 01:08:34,770
four o'clock in the afternoon the kids

1365
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:36,989
come home from school in the in the

1366
01:08:42,349 --> 01:08:40,290
matrix and decide to play you know the

1367
01:08:46,579 --> 01:08:42,359
play with us or something because some

1368
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:46,589
of these events certainly are have the

1369
01:08:52,180 --> 01:08:48,239
egg you know the element of tricks

1370
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:52,190
tourism in there they're made just to I

1371
01:08:58,220 --> 01:08:54,690
know to get our goat maybe I guess

1372
01:09:00,079 --> 01:08:58,230
that's the best way that I can explain

1373
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:00,089
it you know and people kind of are

1374
01:09:06,410 --> 01:09:03,330
looking for a you know an explanation in

1375
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:06,420
the area of cosmic consciousness you

1376
01:09:10,729 --> 01:09:08,279
know it shows that we're all linked

1377
01:09:12,890 --> 01:09:10,739
together in some six degrees of

1378
01:09:16,370 --> 01:09:12,900
separation we did write about that in

1379
01:09:20,209 --> 01:09:16,380
the book as well but I think it's a it's

1380
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:20,219
a lot more random than that you know

1381
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:21,690
like something is happening and

1382
01:09:25,340 --> 01:09:23,489
something is someone or something is

1383
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:25,350
behind this but you can't really put

1384
01:09:29,180 --> 01:09:27,839
your your your finger on it because it's

1385
01:09:34,010 --> 01:09:29,190
just like UFOs

1386
01:09:38,209 --> 01:09:34,020
it's very elusive the kids come home to

1387
01:09:40,459 --> 01:09:38,219
play with their sea monkeys yeah no no

1388
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:40,469
of Valarie you've worked in the area of

1389
01:09:46,370 --> 01:09:42,449
a science fiction and and comic books

1390
01:09:48,019 --> 01:09:46,380
what what seems to be the impression

1391
01:09:50,269 --> 01:09:48,029
that most people you know in those

1392
01:09:52,430 --> 01:09:50,279
especially in the comic book world they

1393
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:52,440
don't know too many people that are

1394
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:54,719
involved in the comics although my

1395
01:09:59,450 --> 01:09:57,210
friend that Peter who does the Youtube

1396
01:10:01,669 --> 01:09:59,460
version of the the show has worked in

1397
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:01,679
the comic book industry and does

1398
01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:06,090
cartoons and has his own animated series

1399
01:10:09,589 --> 01:10:07,260
of All American girls

1400
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:09,599
I mean what seems to be the consensus

1401
01:10:16,910 --> 01:10:11,090
there do they think that we're all you

1402
01:10:22,069 --> 01:10:16,920
know bats are out on a limb or oh well I

1403
01:10:23,209 --> 01:10:22,079
think a big storyline in in comics one

1404
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:23,219
of the big storylines is that there are

1405
01:10:28,279 --> 01:10:26,130
multiple universes and they're they're

1406
01:10:30,020 --> 01:10:28,289
sort of infinite different realities and

1407
01:10:32,299 --> 01:10:30,030
universes and each one is slightly

1408
01:10:35,540 --> 01:10:32,309
different and they use that to sort of

1409
01:10:37,939 --> 01:10:35,550
explain why you know comics like comic

1410
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:37,949
book characters one way in one issue and

1411
01:10:43,299 --> 01:10:40,489
then ten years later is a different way

1412
01:10:46,430 --> 01:10:43,309
so they're very into that multiple

1413
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:46,440
universes and also playing with time the

1414
01:10:51,979 --> 01:10:49,920
idea of going back in time messing with

1415
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:51,989
time and so forth

1416
01:10:56,750 --> 01:10:53,610
those are the only big popular

1417
01:10:59,120 --> 01:10:56,760
storylines or we were coming up on our

1418
01:11:01,520 --> 01:10:59,130
last break in the movie we'll be back in

1419
01:11:05,209 --> 01:11:01,530
a few minutes and stay tuned for some

1420
01:11:07,460 --> 01:11:05,219
more exciting stories on synchronicities

1421
01:11:16,270 --> 01:11:07,470
and occult iPod

1422
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:20,450
now back to exploring the bazaar with

1423
01:11:26,330 --> 01:11:23,010
two of the most electrifying researchers

1424
01:11:32,689 --> 01:11:26,340
repair enjoy your hosts Timothy Becca

1425
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,699
Lee and King Swartz Tim once again we

1426
01:11:37,610 --> 01:11:35,040
find ourselves in the last segment of a

1427
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:37,620
program we've got just two excellent yes

1428
01:11:43,310 --> 01:11:40,800
and probably a couple hundred questions

1429
01:11:45,140 --> 01:11:43,320
that we still need to ask but we're

1430
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:45,150
going to attend end to end - excellent

1431
01:11:52,820 --> 01:11:50,610
host don't forget that yes how could I

1432
01:11:56,410 --> 01:11:52,830
forget how could I forget

1433
01:12:00,920 --> 01:11:56,420
but I wanted to ask a Val

1434
01:12:05,630 --> 01:12:00,930
now considered your history in the comic

1435
01:12:07,130 --> 01:12:05,640
book industry you know I know that you

1436
01:12:11,300 --> 01:12:07,140
know comic books I mean they've there's

1437
01:12:14,060 --> 01:12:11,310
always been an occult elements with them

1438
01:12:17,870 --> 01:12:14,070
but you know now like when I was a kid

1439
01:12:20,030 --> 01:12:17,880
especially you know like in the 60s it

1440
01:12:23,030 --> 01:12:20,040
was it was more about the cakes you know

1441
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:23,040
superheroes people do people like that

1442
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:25,530
but it seems to me that around the same

1443
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:28,800
time that you know when we were talking

1444
01:12:37,189 --> 01:12:32,489
about a lot of these people Robert Anton

1445
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:37,199
Wilson Timothy Leary you know okay dick

1446
01:12:44,660 --> 01:12:39,449
that you know they were talking about

1447
01:12:48,530 --> 01:12:44,670
their extraterrestrial contacts in the

1448
01:12:53,209 --> 01:12:48,540
70s I seem to remember that there was an

1449
01:12:55,850 --> 01:12:53,219
also resurgence of an interest in the

1450
01:12:58,820 --> 01:12:55,860
occult in the comic books as well along

1451
01:13:00,500 --> 01:12:58,830
rather along that same time oh yeah

1452
01:13:02,900 --> 01:13:00,510
absolutely there's a whole sort of a

1453
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:02,910
line of occult comic books that um

1454
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:05,489
especially a Marvel Comics put out and

1455
01:13:10,090 --> 01:13:07,050
are the one that sticks in my mind is on

1456
01:13:14,060 --> 01:13:10,100
is a comic called the son of Satan or

1457
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:14,070
literally the son knocks it down

1458
01:13:19,010 --> 01:13:16,320
Pentagon on his head a Pentagon it

1459
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:19,020
carved in his chest and he has a sister

1460
01:13:24,500 --> 01:13:21,120
called st. Anna and there's a whole

1461
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:24,510
thing in family ah seitan I've seen

1462
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:28,719
those comic goodness yeah you

1463
01:13:33,390 --> 01:13:31,210
and yeah I was so freaking Vader rampant

1464
01:13:36,900 --> 01:13:33,400
vampire illus yes

1465
01:13:39,300 --> 01:13:36,910
yeah absolutely Vampirella there's

1466
01:13:42,030 --> 01:13:39,310
research into no interesting Dracula and

1467
01:13:44,430 --> 01:13:42,040
I believe some of these comic book

1468
01:13:48,090 --> 01:13:44,440
people were also hanging out in occult

1469
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:48,100
shops in New York City around that same

1470
01:13:53,100 --> 01:13:51,760
time period in the seventies and sort of

1471
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:53,110
there's kind of a blending I think

1472
01:13:58,050 --> 01:13:55,210
almost of like nil certain occult

1473
01:14:01,910 --> 01:13:58,060
circles and we had we had bubbles we had

1474
01:14:04,979 --> 01:14:01,920
the Warlock shop which Herman Slater ran

1475
01:14:09,330 --> 01:14:04,989
then of course we had my occult the Arts

1476
01:14:12,689 --> 01:14:09,340
and Sciences Center on 14th Street then

1477
01:14:16,770 --> 01:14:12,699
there was the processed Church you must

1478
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:16,780
know about that Adam right and and then

1479
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:19,930
there was another a very strange group

1480
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:22,090
and I can't remember what they called

1481
01:14:26,729 --> 01:14:25,120
themselves but they had a little shop up

1482
01:14:29,729 --> 01:14:26,739
around Oh

1483
01:14:32,340 --> 01:14:29,739
maybe 60th Street or so on the east side

1484
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:32,350
and it was you know really pitch black

1485
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:34,510
in there and you could never remember

1486
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:36,880
the guys the owner or the manager his

1487
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:39,280
name was Gary but you could never really

1488
01:14:43,530 --> 01:14:42,850
pin him down as to what they were all

1489
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:43,540
about

1490
01:14:48,150 --> 01:14:45,730
whereas with Herman Slater was pretty

1491
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:48,160
much a you know of witchcraft a place

1492
01:14:53,670 --> 01:14:51,250
but they sold herbs and oils and they

1493
01:14:56,670 --> 01:14:53,680
sold our you know our books and things

1494
01:14:58,890 --> 01:14:56,680
along that line and of course I was like

1495
01:15:01,740 --> 01:14:58,900
classes and things and then the

1496
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:01,750
spiritualist movement was still fairly

1497
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:06,640
large at that point the late 60s and

1498
01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:11,290
early 70s here in New York they had

1499
01:15:16,890 --> 01:15:13,120
their all their meetings at the in

1500
01:15:21,030 --> 01:15:16,900
Soniya hotel was which was up around 73

1501
01:15:25,220 --> 01:15:21,040
to 74th Street and a Broadway and you

1502
01:15:28,500 --> 01:15:25,230
know I even saw a man Lee Palmer Hall

1503
01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:28,510
who of course is one of the greats of a

1504
01:15:36,110 --> 01:15:31,390
I mean there's an occult icon

1505
01:15:38,669 --> 01:15:36,120
certainly endeavor was one and he was a

1506
01:15:40,590 --> 01:15:38,679
mesmerizing speaker for a buck you got

1507
01:15:42,510 --> 01:15:40,600
to set up close because it would

1508
01:15:44,970 --> 01:15:42,520
probably only be about maybe you know

1509
01:15:48,630 --> 01:15:44,980
of 25 or 35 people in the end the place

1510
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:48,640
and he was a very large man and he set

1511
01:15:53,820 --> 01:15:50,530
up in front of the I think they had a

1512
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:53,830
little stage and a huge gong behind and

1513
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:55,690
the two ladies that ran the the group

1514
01:16:01,350 --> 01:15:57,370
they would start out the evenings

1515
01:16:03,780 --> 01:16:01,360
procession by banging the gong and then

1516
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:03,790
mainly Palmer Hall become a kind of dog

1517
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:08,410
show mmm the occult gong show that he

1518
01:16:14,850 --> 01:16:12,730
was set up there and and could talk talk

1519
01:16:18,900 --> 01:16:14,860
a blue I was going to say a blue a blue

1520
01:16:22,110 --> 01:16:18,910
streak but he even knew his stuff or he

1521
01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:22,120
was a total BS artist it was one of

1522
01:16:26,310 --> 01:16:24,490
those kind of people that you could

1523
01:16:28,740 --> 01:16:26,320
never really tell I mean he obviously

1524
01:16:31,140 --> 01:16:28,750
know he obviously knew the history of

1525
01:16:35,810 --> 01:16:31,150
the occult and he was one of the few

1526
01:16:38,580 --> 01:16:35,820
people who actually saw saw the the

1527
01:16:40,230 --> 01:16:38,590
Masonic Order as being a very positive

1528
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:40,240
thing instead of you know a lot of

1529
01:16:46,890 --> 01:16:42,010
people who thought another secret

1530
01:16:49,890 --> 01:16:46,900
society all that mumbo jumbo and he had

1531
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:49,900
a huge book which sold for $100 in I

1532
01:16:53,730 --> 01:16:51,250
mean that would be the equivalent of

1533
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:53,740
seven or eight hundred buck bucks today

1534
01:17:01,290 --> 01:16:56,890
huge book printed on very fine paper and

1535
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:01,300
gold leaf around the edges and there

1536
01:17:06,060 --> 01:17:02,890
were other speakers you could go in and

1537
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:06,070
hear you know for a dollar me the best I

1538
01:17:13,740 --> 01:17:09,690
could do was get 50 cents for a talk so

1539
01:17:16,710 --> 01:17:13,750
but those were the days of of course you

1540
01:17:19,670 --> 01:17:16,720
could rent a hall you know or a room in

1541
01:17:21,870 --> 01:17:19,680
a hotel for 25 or $30 for the night

1542
01:17:24,210 --> 01:17:21,880
today you couldn't even come close to

1543
01:17:26,610 --> 01:17:24,220
that you know I mean it's a forget about

1544
01:17:30,690 --> 01:17:26,620
it and people want to you know listen to

1545
01:17:34,530 --> 01:17:30,700
their their iPod shows and watch UFO

1546
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:34,540
Hunters and things along that line I

1547
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:37,360
mean do you think I'd be Valerie that

1548
01:17:42,570 --> 01:17:40,930
there is more interest in this type of

1549
01:17:45,210 --> 01:17:42,580
subject today than there was then or

1550
01:17:47,189 --> 01:17:45,220
wasn't more hardcore back in the 60s and

1551
01:17:50,580 --> 01:17:47,199
70s

1552
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:50,590
um that's hard to say I think it's uh in

1553
01:17:56,370 --> 01:17:53,679
some ways I mean the interest is still

1554
01:17:58,680 --> 01:17:56,380
there it's just the the subject matter

1555
01:18:01,590 --> 01:17:58,690
has kind of sort of mutated like you

1556
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:01,600
know there's definitely a great

1557
01:18:05,550 --> 01:18:03,250
popularity and stuff that are kind of

1558
01:18:09,890 --> 01:18:05,560
like a discordian society but sort of

1559
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:09,900
translated into a sort of contemporary

1560
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:13,330
means and symbols um so I think it's

1561
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:16,449
still there it's just kind of changed a

1562
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:19,120
bit and the purpose of my my website is

1563
01:18:24,900 --> 01:18:21,810
I really try to bridge that gap between

1564
01:18:27,150 --> 01:18:24,910
this older material and to present it to

1565
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:27,160
like a new audience to expand that

1566
01:18:31,620 --> 01:18:29,410
audience now who would you say your

1567
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:31,630
audience is I mean what is there an age

1568
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:34,210
preference I mean that have you done any

1569
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:37,090
statistical analysis of the people that

1570
01:18:42,780 --> 01:18:38,290
are going to your blog

1571
01:18:46,740 --> 01:18:42,790
I haven't interesting to come from all

1572
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:46,750
over the world and I think there are of

1573
01:18:52,890 --> 01:18:49,840
all different ages and all are welcome

1574
01:18:56,700 --> 01:18:52,900
to to read but I'm definitely like

1575
01:18:59,250 --> 01:18:56,710
trying to to reach a part of my audience

1576
01:19:02,130 --> 01:18:59,260
which is to try to reach younger people

1577
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:02,140
to sort of introduce them to stuff like

1578
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:05,050
Robert Anton Wilson and so okay dick and

1579
01:19:08,820 --> 01:19:06,610
stuff like that you know to this new

1580
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:08,830
audience to sort of just you know keep

1581
01:19:13,310 --> 01:19:09,520
it going

1582
01:19:16,610 --> 01:19:13,320
are they are they too busy skateboarding

1583
01:19:20,130 --> 01:19:16,620
hahaha and skateboarding or playing a

1584
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:20,140
plank Call of Duty or something ar-ar-ar

1585
01:19:25,610 --> 01:19:23,170
honor honor I'm under a smartphone which

1586
01:19:27,990 --> 01:19:25,620
is not making them too smart I I suspect

1587
01:19:30,750 --> 01:19:28,000
jeez you know I I'm walking down the

1588
01:19:34,110 --> 01:19:30,760
street today and there's this lady

1589
01:19:35,310 --> 01:19:34,120
coming towards me and and in traffic I

1590
01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:35,320
mean you know they weren't speeding by

1591
01:19:39,689 --> 01:19:37,600
but she's looking at I mean I said to

1592
01:19:41,850 --> 01:19:39,699
myself well what in the heck could be

1593
01:19:43,229 --> 01:19:41,860
that important that she's standing there

1594
01:19:45,810 --> 01:19:43,239
you know like walking down the street

1595
01:19:47,220 --> 01:19:45,820
with her head in her smartphone I don't

1596
01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:47,230
even know how you could see it because

1597
01:19:52,590 --> 01:19:49,260
if I go out with my Kindle or my

1598
01:19:54,419 --> 01:19:52,600
smartphone I can't even got to take it

1599
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:54,429
into a corner of a building or something

1600
01:19:59,550 --> 01:19:56,770
you know because of the identity of the

1601
01:20:01,050 --> 01:19:59,560
screen or something like that I I don't

1602
01:20:03,660 --> 01:20:01,060
know it just seems too

1603
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:03,670
is harder to connect today with people

1604
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:07,090
they just don't read like they used to

1605
01:20:11,610 --> 01:20:08,890
you know when I was growing up reading

1606
01:20:13,130 --> 01:20:11,620
reading was my favorite form of

1607
01:20:19,670 --> 01:20:13,140
entertainment

1608
01:20:22,890 --> 01:20:19,680
Estel is actually so now so Adam what I

1609
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:22,900
addressed time we spoke I believe you

1610
01:20:30,150 --> 01:20:25,090
were working on a book on kata the

1611
01:20:33,980 --> 01:20:30,160
contactee movement yes indeed and is

1612
01:20:38,820 --> 01:20:33,990
that moving along that is almost done

1613
01:20:41,370 --> 01:20:38,830
you will stand soon okay and who is who

1614
01:20:45,390 --> 01:20:41,380
are some of the and I do use the

1615
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:45,400
characters I mean I mean that word

1616
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:47,170
because certainly the contact these were

1617
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:50,080
where character is well you believe in

1618
01:20:57,150 --> 01:20:53,530
their fanciful stories or not they

1619
01:21:00,960 --> 01:20:57,160
certainly had a way about them who are

1620
01:21:03,510 --> 01:21:00,970
some of the the characters that we will

1621
01:21:06,150 --> 01:21:03,520
meet in your book characters indeed yeah

1622
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:06,160
Greg Bishop is working with me on this

1623
01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:08,730
project and as you know this has been a

1624
01:21:16,380 --> 01:21:13,900
few years now and let me give you a

1625
01:21:17,780 --> 01:21:16,390
little background how this all came

1626
01:21:20,430 --> 01:21:17,790
about

1627
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:20,440
geez how many years now a few years ago

1628
01:21:28,110 --> 01:21:24,690
I came across a collection of photos of

1629
01:21:31,220 --> 01:21:28,120
that were of giant rock you know the is

1630
01:21:34,140 --> 01:21:31,230
in the interplanetary spacecraft

1631
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:34,150
conventions out there with a George Van

1632
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:37,930
Tassel unique collection of photos that

1633
01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:41,890
I don't know if you know Joffe X got

1634
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:46,800
ahold of he from the estate of I think

1635
01:21:51,630 --> 01:21:50,560
who had these Bob Beck Oh Bob yeah yeah

1636
01:21:53,220 --> 01:21:51,640
yeah yeah yeah

1637
01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:53,230
Bob Beck used to ride around on this

1638
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:55,120
motorcycle to go from one convention to

1639
01:21:59,480 --> 01:21:56,650
another and he had a couple of small

1640
01:22:01,740 --> 01:21:59,490
booklets that he you know he

1641
01:22:04,830 --> 01:22:01,750
self-published and would sell but then

1642
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:04,840
everybody did a giant rock yeah so there

1643
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:07,210
was the Beck collection of photos that

1644
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:08,970
he took over the years amazing

1645
01:22:12,609 --> 01:22:11,530
collection of photos and I saw these

1646
01:22:17,830 --> 01:22:12,619
that

1647
01:22:20,259 --> 01:22:17,840
what happened was a mutual friend of

1648
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:20,269
myself and Joe FEX published these

1649
01:22:28,449 --> 01:22:26,090
photos you know through Lulu and the

1650
01:22:30,639 --> 01:22:28,459
overall quality of the book you know

1651
01:22:33,100 --> 01:22:30,649
that it was black and white and I didn't

1652
01:22:34,929 --> 01:22:33,110
give a lot of context to the photos but

1653
01:22:37,179 --> 01:22:34,939
I you know I saw they were great photos

1654
01:22:39,850 --> 01:22:37,189
and I contacted these guys and say hey

1655
01:22:43,689 --> 01:22:39,860
I'd like to use this collection of

1656
01:22:46,409 --> 01:22:43,699
photos and put together a book about the

1657
01:22:50,529 --> 01:22:46,419
contactees kind of a who's-who of the

1658
01:22:53,919 --> 01:22:50,539
old school contact mold O'Toole yeah hmm

1659
01:22:57,580 --> 01:22:53,929
so we struck a deal and so what this

1660
01:23:00,699 --> 01:22:57,590
book will be is yes a who's who a

1661
01:23:03,729 --> 01:23:00,709
listing of the the contactees as opposed

1662
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:03,739
to the abductors we try to delineate

1663
01:23:12,189 --> 01:23:08,090
between the two not you know stray away

1664
01:23:14,589 --> 01:23:12,199
from you know the abductees pretty much

1665
01:23:18,279 --> 01:23:14,599
started at Betty Barney Hilde and you

1666
01:23:22,179 --> 01:23:18,289
know on and on and basically looking at

1667
01:23:28,299 --> 01:23:22,189
the original contactees quote-unquote

1668
01:23:31,899 --> 01:23:28,309
from George Adamski to Truman bathroom

1669
01:23:33,310 --> 01:23:31,909
to go on and on and on so those are some

1670
01:23:36,489 --> 01:23:33,320
of the characters that will be in the

1671
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:36,499
book each installment for each contact

1672
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,010
is somewhere between 500 to 1500 words

1673
01:23:48,009 --> 01:23:46,159
you know and so that that that is kind

1674
01:23:50,729 --> 01:23:48,019
of the outline of the book and we're

1675
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:50,739
almost done and we have some other

1676
01:23:59,020 --> 01:23:54,530
contributions between besides myself and

1677
01:24:00,939 --> 01:23:59,030
mr. Bishop so I think well I would never

1678
01:24:03,069 --> 01:24:00,949
be interested in this book well I

1679
01:24:06,939 --> 01:24:03,079
remember we had a conversation about

1680
01:24:08,350 --> 01:24:06,949
Barbour Hudson all that is she in the

1681
01:24:11,469 --> 01:24:08,360
book yes she is

1682
01:24:15,369 --> 01:24:11,479
and I I used some of your commentary oh

1683
01:24:19,299 --> 01:24:15,379
very good very good yes uh-huh but I'm

1684
01:24:21,580 --> 01:24:19,309
gonna talk about her real briefly really

1685
01:24:25,209 --> 01:24:21,590
fascinating characters there wasn't a

1686
01:24:26,310 --> 01:24:25,219
lot of women contact these you know it

1687
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:26,320
was a

1688
01:24:31,419 --> 01:24:29,090
mostly dominated by men but you know

1689
01:24:34,839 --> 01:24:31,429
there was a handful like Dana Howard oh

1690
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:34,849
yes a few others and there was Barbara

1691
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:37,489
Hudson who is really interesting for a

1692
01:24:41,109 --> 01:24:39,050
lot of reasons one she was an

1693
01:24:44,350 --> 01:24:41,119
african-american woman yet

1694
01:24:46,089 --> 01:24:44,360
and uh you know she was also part of

1695
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:46,099
that scene in New York City with

1696
01:24:50,919 --> 01:24:49,010
yourself and Jim Mosely and John keel

1697
01:24:55,060 --> 01:24:50,929
and who else am I forgetting a great

1698
01:24:57,609 --> 01:24:55,070
Barker oh yeah and so she had some

1699
01:25:01,600 --> 01:24:57,619
interesting experiences early on which

1700
01:25:04,270 --> 01:25:01,610
you know about you want to weigh in on

1701
01:25:07,660 --> 01:25:04,280
it why you know I I was going to write a

1702
01:25:10,180 --> 01:25:07,670
book with her and I would visit she she

1703
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:10,190
lived in Harlem I think like 129th

1704
01:25:15,430 --> 01:25:12,650
Street back when Harlem was not

1705
01:25:16,750 --> 01:25:15,440
particularly a safe neighborhood and I

1706
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:16,760
would go up there at night you know I'd

1707
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:19,010
get off the train next to the Apollo

1708
01:25:25,300 --> 01:25:22,130
Theater on 125th Street and walk a few

1709
01:25:27,100 --> 01:25:25,310
blocks to her place now she had a

1710
01:25:30,180 --> 01:25:27,110
daughter there pair I met her parents

1711
01:25:33,220 --> 01:25:30,190
and all I mean outside of her UFO

1712
01:25:36,580 --> 01:25:33,230
experiences I mean she seemed you know

1713
01:25:39,700 --> 01:25:36,590
pretty typical I guess she had first the

1714
01:25:42,790 --> 01:25:39,710
come in contact with us when she

1715
01:25:44,950 --> 01:25:42,800
attended what a Jim Mosley's meetings

1716
01:25:50,050 --> 01:25:44,960
and she kind of you know hooked herself

1717
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:50,060
onto the onto the the group and not only

1718
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:52,010
I mean that she attended you a UFO

1719
01:25:56,649 --> 01:25:53,210
meetings and things like that but she

1720
01:25:58,479 --> 01:25:56,659
was you know I am a friend to to most of

1721
01:26:01,330 --> 01:25:58,489
us I mean you know she hung she hung out

1722
01:26:03,580 --> 01:26:01,340
in it we could drink a little and party

1723
01:26:07,270 --> 01:26:03,590
little and all but she she claimed that

1724
01:26:10,270 --> 01:26:07,280
there was a group of visitors and called

1725
01:26:12,609 --> 01:26:10,280
really called the group well I believe

1726
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:12,619
yeah but that might have been for lack

1727
01:26:19,180 --> 01:26:16,369
of a of a better name she was kind of

1728
01:26:22,060 --> 01:26:19,190
ambiguous about a lot of these things

1729
01:26:27,010 --> 01:26:22,070
but basically they would pick her up in

1730
01:26:29,169 --> 01:26:27,020
a car and take her to a house somewhere

1731
01:26:31,930 --> 01:26:29,179
in New England I don't know if she ever

1732
01:26:34,330 --> 01:26:31,940
said exactly where it was and they would

1733
01:26:36,010 --> 01:26:34,340
have they would have meetings and and

1734
01:26:37,930 --> 01:26:36,020
they would teach her I guess just like

1735
01:26:39,460 --> 01:26:37,940
they did some of the other early

1736
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:39,470
contactees

1737
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:40,970
the things about you know life on other

1738
01:26:45,910 --> 01:26:43,130
planets and cosmic awareness and of

1739
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:45,920
course most of them look the very human

1740
01:26:50,590 --> 01:26:48,770
in in appearance so you would say okay

1741
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:50,600
she had these she had these stories and

1742
01:26:55,330 --> 01:26:52,970
she kind of fitted with the you know the

1743
01:26:58,270 --> 01:26:55,340
whole UFO contactee thing but she also

1744
01:27:00,430 --> 01:26:58,280
had some really crazy far-out stories

1745
01:27:03,340 --> 01:27:00,440
she claims that when she was a little

1746
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:03,350
girl she was a coming home with her

1747
01:27:05,380 --> 01:27:04,610
parents that one night and they were

1748
01:27:08,110 --> 01:27:05,390
headed up

1749
01:27:10,420 --> 01:27:08,120
I guess just on the perimeter of Central

1750
01:27:12,820 --> 01:27:10,430
Park and and the military was there with

1751
01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:12,830
tanks and searchlights and all and there

1752
01:27:18,670 --> 01:27:16,490
was part of a wreckage to a UFO that the

1753
01:27:23,050 --> 01:27:18,680
military had shot down over Central Park

1754
01:27:25,420 --> 01:27:23,060
I mean right you know like how can you

1755
01:27:28,090 --> 01:27:25,430
say did you make that up I mean she was

1756
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:28,100
dead set serious uh you know about it

1757
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:31,130
then then I guess she had a lot of

1758
01:27:40,540 --> 01:27:36,770
experiences down in Oh help me out here

1759
01:27:42,610 --> 01:27:40,550
uh the the biggest swamp in I guess it

1760
01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:42,620
would be a Virginia or North Gate is

1761
01:27:46,540 --> 01:27:44,960
most swamp did the dismal swamp is no

1762
01:27:48,970 --> 01:27:46,550
slop right and I didn't remember the

1763
01:27:50,440 --> 01:27:48,980
exact particulars of it but I guess

1764
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:50,450
there were beasties and Ghoulies and

1765
01:27:55,270 --> 01:27:53,090
cryptids and things you know running

1766
01:27:58,150 --> 01:27:55,280
around there was kind of a haunted area

1767
01:28:00,580 --> 01:27:58,160
so she was very well informed on this

1768
01:28:02,650 --> 01:28:00,590
but it didn't seem like she had read a

1769
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:02,660
lot of the literature I mean she knew

1770
01:28:08,110 --> 01:28:04,850
about George Adamski and and people

1771
01:28:11,260 --> 01:28:08,120
along that line but she had all these

1772
01:28:14,470 --> 01:28:11,270
incredible stories to share and we could

1773
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:14,480
never really quite figure her out and I

1774
01:28:18,460 --> 01:28:16,370
had a file here which I still have in

1775
01:28:20,950 --> 01:28:18,470
the drawer some of the notes that I took

1776
01:28:22,060 --> 01:28:20,960
they even appeared in her home up there

1777
01:28:23,530 --> 01:28:22,070
in Harlem

1778
01:28:25,180 --> 01:28:23,540
I think they beamed down from the

1779
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:25,190
ceiling or something like that you know

1780
01:28:30,730 --> 01:28:27,530
yeah there's another yeah that was

1781
01:28:35,770 --> 01:28:30,740
another experience that she had the one

1782
01:28:38,100 --> 01:28:35,780
in Central Park she was like twelve

1783
01:28:42,490 --> 01:28:38,110
years old maybe then the next one was

1784
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:42,500
she was fifteen where she was in bed one

1785
01:28:49,150 --> 01:28:45,410
night mist there was all kinds of fog

1786
01:28:52,030 --> 01:28:49,160
and mist in the room and some stranger

1787
01:28:53,050 --> 01:28:52,040
interred and they make eye contact and

1788
01:28:55,300 --> 01:28:53,060
he put

1789
01:28:58,570 --> 01:28:55,310
into a trance state and they went up in

1790
01:29:02,140 --> 01:28:58,580
some sort of elevator were beamed up

1791
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:02,150
into a UFO and had you know kind of the

1792
01:29:08,230 --> 01:29:04,970
typical experience so you know that

1793
01:29:10,780 --> 01:29:08,240
those were some of the stories and you

1794
01:29:12,790 --> 01:29:10,790
know was interesting that she was at

1795
01:29:13,750 --> 01:29:12,800
least according to you and correct me if

1796
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:13,760
I'm wrong

1797
01:29:20,380 --> 01:29:16,730
she was Jim Mosley's girl friendly well

1798
01:29:22,180 --> 01:29:20,390
yes I guess to some degree you could you

1799
01:29:24,250 --> 01:29:22,190
could say that I mean you know she did

1800
01:29:27,940 --> 01:29:24,260
hang out with him

1801
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:27,950
the relationship was kind of loosely the

1802
01:29:31,060 --> 01:29:29,690
thing I don't think they were said are

1803
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:31,070
going out with each other you know I

1804
01:29:36,820 --> 01:29:33,290
mean it was a kind of a free-spirited

1805
01:29:38,980 --> 01:29:36,830
type of you know a thing up Barbara like

1806
01:29:43,420 --> 01:29:38,990
the hanging party I mean yeah about this

1807
01:29:45,070 --> 01:29:43,430
way I get to of it to describe it you

1808
01:29:47,710 --> 01:29:45,080
know but there were they were a lot of

1809
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:47,720
oddball characters one of my favorites

1810
01:29:53,170 --> 01:29:51,050
of course is buck Nelson yeah yeah he

1811
01:29:56,530 --> 01:29:53,180
hoesley hovered in the book oh he the

1812
01:29:59,590 --> 01:29:56,540
the farmer from Ana where was he for

1813
01:30:03,370 --> 01:29:59,600
Arkansas right was it Arkansas and he

1814
01:30:06,730 --> 01:30:03,380
would have his space craft convention on

1815
01:30:10,660 --> 01:30:06,740
his property every every year and it was

1816
01:30:12,460 --> 01:30:10,670
kind of a makeshift a sort of thing in

1817
01:30:14,410 --> 01:30:12,470
order to cover some expenses I think

1818
01:30:16,300 --> 01:30:14,420
they would even bring in the local

1819
01:30:17,650 --> 01:30:16,310
carnival or something you know there'd

1820
01:30:20,500 --> 01:30:17,660
be a ferris wheel going in the

1821
01:30:22,450 --> 01:30:20,510
background in a tilted war a world while

1822
01:30:24,940 --> 01:30:22,460
one of the speaker's was up on stage

1823
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:24,950
probably without a microphone telling of

1824
01:30:30,220 --> 01:30:28,250
their contact experiences and I remember

1825
01:30:31,540 --> 01:30:30,230
there was there was a fellow at can't

1826
01:30:35,530 --> 01:30:31,550
remember his name I think it was his

1827
01:30:37,780 --> 01:30:35,540
last name was Hill and he lived nearby

1828
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:37,790
he was a member a couple UFO groups and

1829
01:30:44,950 --> 01:30:42,530
have some synchronicities involving buck

1830
01:30:49,420 --> 01:30:44,960
Nelson so there was Buck Nelson and then

1831
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:49,430
there was a princess Nia some ah and and

1832
01:30:55,330 --> 01:30:52,730
and his wife now III do cover them in

1833
01:30:57,340 --> 01:30:55,340
the bed yes prettiest character yes I

1834
01:30:59,200 --> 01:30:57,350
think Prince nism was the only person

1835
01:31:01,600 --> 01:30:59,210
that I could think of warfare that was

1836
01:31:04,420 --> 01:31:01,610
ever unpolite Lee told by Long John

1837
01:31:06,190 --> 01:31:04,430
Neville to leave the studio I think I

1838
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,200
cover that in the book and I probably

1839
01:31:10,330 --> 01:31:08,480
got that anecdote from you oh well there

1840
01:31:12,730 --> 01:31:10,340
you go then you know an edifice that you

1841
01:31:15,100 --> 01:31:12,740
know has to be true well who cares if

1842
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:15,110
it's right yeah yeah with the contactees

1843
01:31:19,270 --> 01:31:17,210
you got to kind of throw a truth out the

1844
01:31:21,850 --> 01:31:19,280
window the only thing less established

1845
01:31:26,110 --> 01:31:21,860
and the contactee movement would be

1846
01:31:29,110 --> 01:31:26,120
Roswell yeah you know part of the thing

1847
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:29,120
that drove me on this book was all these

1848
01:31:34,900 --> 01:31:32,690
photos and there is a photo of his name

1849
01:31:38,620 --> 01:31:34,910
was leaked Childers and oh yeah oh yeah

1850
01:31:41,470 --> 01:31:38,630
I renamed himself Prince Newsom so I had

1851
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:41,480
these photos of characters like him and

1852
01:31:46,300 --> 01:31:44,210
like who the hell was this guy so you

1853
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:46,310
know it led to doing research on all

1854
01:31:51,910 --> 01:31:48,290
these characters and a lot of them were

1855
01:31:56,710 --> 01:31:51,920
pretty obscure so you know you have your

1856
01:31:59,200 --> 01:31:56,720
more famous at contactees like Adamski

1857
01:32:02,110 --> 01:31:59,210
and george hunt williamson but there are

1858
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:02,120
many many others oh honey

1859
01:32:06,100 --> 01:32:04,010
literally hundreds of them you know I

1860
01:32:08,590 --> 01:32:06,110
still I still there were even a couple

1861
01:32:10,150 --> 01:32:08,600
on the east coast that here at the

1862
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:10,160
Edward that point there was a fellow

1863
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:13,250
down in Philadelphia kept members name

1864
01:32:18,670 --> 01:32:14,690
or fan but I've got his

1865
01:32:20,950 --> 01:32:18,680
typewritten manuscript in my files here

1866
01:32:24,180 --> 01:32:20,960
anyway we're closed or don't don't send

1867
01:32:27,100 --> 01:32:24,190
it to me uh we're almost done haha

1868
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:27,110
you're like me I find I find one one

1869
01:32:30,850 --> 01:32:29,210
last chapter and I'm not going to send a

1870
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:30,860
book to the printer until I include some

1871
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:33,170
material from it anyway we're running

1872
01:32:36,340 --> 01:32:34,490
down to the last few minutes of the show

1873
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:36,350
and I want to go around the table here

1874
01:32:40,810 --> 01:32:38,570
and have everybody have the opportunity

1875
01:32:42,820 --> 01:32:40,820
of telling us what you're working on Val

1876
01:32:44,980 --> 01:32:42,830
what what how do people get in touch

1877
01:32:48,010 --> 01:32:44,990
with you and what's what projects you

1878
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:48,020
have in the works all right now I'm

1879
01:32:55,740 --> 01:32:50,810
mostly focused on butterfly language my

1880
01:33:00,100 --> 01:32:55,750
website and you can access it by a WW

1881
01:33:02,890 --> 01:33:00,110
butterfly language all one word.com and

1882
01:33:05,020 --> 01:33:02,900
it's a contact information fair yeah

1883
01:33:07,660 --> 01:33:05,030
it's a great site and of course all the

1884
01:33:12,100 --> 01:33:07,670
links there are on a kco our radio.com

1885
01:33:15,330 --> 01:33:12,110
and adam but besides the contact e-book

1886
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:15,340
what else do you have in the in the fire

1887
01:33:22,589 --> 01:33:19,449
ah plenty of stuff I started a

1888
01:33:25,589 --> 01:33:22,599
Podcast which i'll put out periodically

1889
01:33:29,409 --> 01:33:25,599
called radio go-go

1890
01:33:32,799 --> 01:33:29,419
so if you go to youtube i guess you can

1891
01:33:34,589 --> 01:33:32,809
search it that way or through soundcloud

1892
01:33:38,020 --> 01:33:34,599
there's like a half dozen episodes

1893
01:33:40,899 --> 01:33:38,030
different interviews so that's something

1894
01:33:42,939 --> 01:33:40,909
for people to check out I just said

1895
01:33:45,909 --> 01:33:42,949
there's a lot of interesting stuff going

1896
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:45,919
on out there and of course we can find

1897
01:33:54,279 --> 01:33:49,489
your books on amazon.com how many books

1898
01:33:59,080 --> 01:33:54,289
have you done now and ah it's a good

1899
01:34:01,270 --> 01:33:59,090
question I don't know seven well we'll

1900
01:34:02,500 --> 01:34:01,280
have to go to Amazon to find out and I

1901
01:34:04,929 --> 01:34:02,510
went over there and there's a lot more

1902
01:34:08,350 --> 01:34:04,939
come and I got like half a dozen in the

1903
01:34:10,719 --> 01:34:08,360
works over the next few years you'll see

1904
01:34:12,549 --> 01:34:10,729
more we will have you on to discuss them

1905
01:34:15,429 --> 01:34:12,559
and don't forget our book The Matrix

1906
01:34:17,589 --> 01:34:15,439
control system of philip k dick and the

1907
01:34:20,049 --> 01:34:17,599
paranormal synchronicities of tim

1908
01:34:22,179 --> 01:34:20,059
Beckley but you can just go to Amazon

1909
01:34:24,250 --> 01:34:22,189
and type in make the matrix control

1910
01:34:27,969 --> 01:34:24,260
system of philip k dick annual you'll

1911
01:34:30,129 --> 01:34:27,979
find the book there and at tim what do

1912
01:34:32,919 --> 01:34:30,139
you have in the hopper well actually i

1913
01:34:36,580 --> 01:34:32,929
am going to an hour from now i'm going

1914
01:34:39,669 --> 01:34:36,590
to be the guest on another program on a

1915
01:34:42,429 --> 01:34:39,679
different network talking about talking

1916
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:42,439
about our book the the matrix control

1917
01:34:46,870 --> 01:34:45,530
system okay show what show is that well

1918
01:34:50,469 --> 01:34:46,880
it's a lob show

1919
01:34:52,899 --> 01:34:50,479
oh-o-oh loves yeah he's on the sniper TV

1920
01:34:55,029 --> 01:34:52,909
or what is that death some to something

1921
01:34:56,979 --> 01:34:55,039
like yeah yeah if something happens on t

1922
01:34:59,199 --> 01:34:56,989
I don't know this so well I mean his

1923
01:35:02,169 --> 01:34:59,209
he's got his he's got his roku channel

1924
01:35:05,529 --> 01:35:02,179
well but this is yeah yeah this is this

1925
01:35:09,790 --> 01:35:05,539
via this is his uh his webcast with I

1926
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:09,800
think it's paranoia well here comes the

1927
01:35:15,429 --> 01:35:13,489
guy with the the hammer and the axe and

1928
01:35:16,989 --> 01:35:15,439
so we will see you again next week and

1929
01:35:19,270 --> 01:35:16,999
don't forget our YouTube channel mister

1930
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:19,280
UFO secret files and we're also on

1931
01:35:34,230 --> 01:35:30,180
you've been listening to exploring the

1932
01:35:37,440 --> 01:35:34,240
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley until

1933
01:35:40,350 --> 01:35:37,450
Swartz they're taking Batman night by

1934
01:35:42,930 --> 01:35:40,360
jetting non-stop across the cosmos in

1935
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:42,940
search of the truly bizarre and totally

1936
01:35:50,190 --> 01:35:46,530
explain if you as they're coming

1937
01:35:55,740 --> 01:35:50,200
Thursday nights at 7 p.m. Pacific 10:00

1938
01:35:58,320 --> 01:35:55,750
p.m. on the K cor digital radio for more

1939
01:36:01,350 --> 01:35:58,330
information on exploring the bizarre and

1940
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:01,360
host Timothy Beckley and Tim Swartz

1941
01:36:07,470 --> 01:36:04,090
check out their K cor digital radio

1942
01:36:23,420 --> 01:36:07,480
network follow their YouTube channel at